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Bot trading with Gatehub

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With the current sell wall on gatehub [1] I ask myself if it is possible to somehow do bot-trading on gatehub
(Edit: gatehub just seems... dead? Not much going on there).

 

Currently, gatehub is off 3.5 cent compared to bitstamp. A quick search showed that gatehub has no api at all. However, isn't gatehub such a "gateway"-thing (which I don't know exactly what it is)? Is there any chance to bot-trade on gatehub using the XRPL? 

Or is it, that this price difference is due to the fact that no-one can use the XRPL to arbitrage trade gatehub?

 

[1] https://xrpcharts.ripple.com/#/markets/XRP/USD:rhub8VRN55s94qWKDv6jmDy1pUykJzF3wq?interval=5m&range=1d&type=candlestick

Edited by xrp-overflow

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If you look at the USD.gatehub / USD.bitstamp market, you'll see that there's no easy way to turn your 3.5% discount into a profit as you need to first pay a 10% premium.  As such, you're going to have to use SWIFT to transfer between Gatehub and Bitstamp to complete the loop.  Given this can take more than a week, your holding exposure is high, the transfer fees are expensive (maybe up to or more than 5% on $1000 worth), plus 1 in every 10 swift transfers is prone to failure or lengthy delays, extending the holding exposure. That might explain the price difference of 3.5% as the likely average SWIFT fee for the amount people are generally buying XRP on Gatehub (ie, the typical Gatehub customer wires ~$500 and it costs ~$20 and they don't want to get screwed out of XRP when they buy it so they are only willing to buy at a 3.5% discount and its a buyers market there because nobody wants to sell at those low prices), then the 10% difference in the USD.gatehub/USD.bitstamp market as simply the arbitrage risk for taking that cycle.  If you look at the EUR markets for gatehub, you'll see conversely they are much inline with Bitstamp prices, as both have SEPA transfers for EUR, which work quickly (usually within a day or so), cheaply (typically less than 10 cents) and reliably by comparison.

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You can do part of the loop with a bot with Ripple-API, since Gatehub is a gateway on XRPL, but half of the loop has to be done manually.

I run sort of arbitrage bot, but not to close the loop Bitstamp-Gatehub.

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12 hours ago, Professor Hantzen said:

If you look at the USD.gatehub / USD.bitstamp market, you'll see that there's no easy way to turn your 3.5% discount into a profit as you need to first pay a 10% premium.  As such, you're going to have to use SWIFT to transfer between Gatehub and Bitstamp to complete the loop.  Given this can take more than a week, your holding exposure is high, the transfer fees are expensive (maybe up to or more than 5% on $1000 worth), plus 1 in every 10 swift transfers is prone to failure or lengthy delays, extending the holding exposure. That might explain the price difference of 3.5% as the likely average SWIFT fee for the amount people are generally buying XRP on Gatehub (ie, the typical Gatehub customer wires ~$500 and it costs ~$20 and they don't want to get screwed out of XRP when they buy it so they are only willing to buy at a 3.5% discount and its a buyers market there because nobody wants to sell at those low prices), then the 10% difference in the USD.gatehub/USD.bitstamp market as simply the arbitrage risk for taking that cycle.  If you look at the EUR markets for gatehub, you'll see conversely they are much inline with Bitstamp prices, as both have SEPA transfers for EUR, which work quickly (usually within a day or so), cheaply (typically less than 10 cents) and reliably by comparison.

Why not just deposit 20K XRP and $10K USD onto both platforms. Then you can buy and sell (arbitrage) simultaneously on both exchanges?

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13 hours ago, cmbartley said:

Why not just deposit 20K XRP and $10K USD onto both platforms. Then you can buy and sell (arbitrage) simultaneously on both exchanges?

Sure - that's what I was (perhaps badly...) describing.  But bear in mind that if you don't want to do more than one round, then you can only make the profit for one round.  Let's take 3.5%, or $350 on $10,000 as your target.  First off,  you're going to encounter slippage from going that deep into market depth and that will vary every few minutes or seconds. For example, at the time of writing, there's actually only $200 "available" - so how will you decide when to trade? And what's your guarantee the market won't move underneath you moments before you place the two trades and have you grabbing a loss right at the outset?  With further unknown SWIFT expenses ranging from $50 to $150 or more at least on entry (and possibly also on exit, even if you're only doing one round), plus two lots of $20 (0.2%) or so for the trades themselves, then paying tax on whatever profits you may make, seems like a pretty large chunk of hassle and risk to try and net only slightly more than your costs, assuming the risks don't wipe those profits out completely. Even if you succeed, and get say $50 - $100, is that a worthwhile payoff for tying up $20,000 of capital for an unknown length of time? (Possibly weeks or more if you really get on the wrong end of "SWIFT").  After you've done that one round, you'll have a pile of XRP on the wrong side (easily fixed), and a pile of USD on the other wrong side (not so easily fixed, as you have to use SWIFT and incur that non-fixed expense).  If you're then thinking of doing it again, you need also bear in mind that your actions may affect the market, the depth is not very solid with the Gatehub IOU and volumes are low.  If you do decide to do it a few times, chances are your repeat buying of $10,000 worth of XRP on the Gatehub side will drive the price in that market up to parity (that amount is sometimes more than the entire trading volume for that pair in a day).  Profitable, low-risk arbitrage opportunities don't typically stick around for long, typically seconds if not milliseconds as there are already multiple bots trying to exploit them (and when one bot gets it first, the second, third bot etc grabs a loss instead).  If you see what looks like an arbitrage opportunity laying dormant for days or weeks, ask yourself first - why hasn't someone written a bot to exploit this?  Why did the bot-writers look at this and think "nah!".  If you're still interested, carefully look at all the risks involved, play out every step on paper first - when you map it out, each steps risks and costs will almost always add up to the difference you're looking at grabbing, that's literally why the difference is there.  Unless you've found something particularly exotic or unknown - in which case, definitely don't post about it on a forum, letting me know about it...;)

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Indeed. The 'problem' with a lot of these arbitrage opportunities is they exist due to friction somewhere along the line. E.g. I saw the nice low price on Gatehub and so sold a bunch of my XRP on Bitstamp and am in the process of moving the USD to Gatehub, but firstly it got stuck as my bank wanted to do extra checks as the large amount flagged up as abnormal. And it then ran it into a weekend, and so the payment is now in limbo. By the time it gets to Gatehub, most of that good price that was there has now gone. If I'm lucky I might cover my costs. But there is a risk that XRP might jump up in price in the meantime and I lose out.

-Matt

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13 hours ago, hammertoe said:

Indeed. The 'problem' with a lot of these arbitrage opportunities is they exist due to friction somewhere along the line. E.g. I saw the nice low price on Gatehub and so sold a bunch of my XRP on Bitstamp and am in the process of moving the USD to Gatehub, but firstly it got stuck as my bank wanted to do extra checks as the large amount flagged up as abnormal. And it then ran it into a weekend, and so the payment is now in limbo. By the time it gets to Gatehub, most of that good price that was there has now gone. If I'm lucky I might cover my costs. But there is a risk that XRP might jump up in price in the meantime and I lose out.

-Matt

Yeah, as soon as traditional banking is involved things get slow and costly.  Hopefully sometime soon, that won't be necessary anymore. :)

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On 10/18/2018 at 10:32 PM, tulo said:

You can do part of the loop with a bot with Ripple-API, since Gatehub is a gateway on XRPL, but half of the loop has to be done manually.

I run sort of arbitrage bot, but not to close the loop Bitstamp-Gatehub.

Hey ? @tulo

What's up since you left your job to be full-time on crypto arbitrage and market making? 

I run a company that does crypto arbitrage and market making. It's always good to know how the competition performs and tips to survive in this industry :)

✌️

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4 hours ago, Lumpy said:

I run a company that does crypto arbitrage and market making. It's always good to know how the competition performs and tips to survive in this industry :)

Really? Well no tips for the competitors....joking :).

I'm working on beyond state of the art algorithms for all negatives cycles detection and generalized max flows to build the final arbitrage bot :wizard:. Market making is not going very well...especially on XRPL.

What I find awful right now is the low quality APIs offered by exchanges...any tip on that?

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On 10/18/2018 at 5:32 PM, tulo said:

You can do part of the loop with a bot with Ripple-API, since Gatehub is a gateway on XRPL, but half of the loop has to be done manually.

I run sort of arbitrage bot, but not to close the loop Bitstamp-Gatehub.


Are you interested in helping me make a GUI script for the ihilda wallet.





It already has a very flexible GUI market making system. 

ihilda is a mini GUI programming language. "build your own bot" for the rcl. I should add arbitrage.
 

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20 minutes ago, jargoman said:


Are you interested in helping me make a GUI script for the ihilda wallet.





It already has a very flexible GUI market making system. 

ihilda is a mini GUI programming language. "build your own bot" for the rcl. I should add arbitrage.
 

This is very interesting..

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