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Liagala

Concerns about Coil data collection

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5 hours ago, Kaidan said:

Try this in Europe now and standby for a fine of 4% of your annual global turnover. Sure that will focus Google and Mastercard minds ?

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Posted (edited)
On 9/19/2018 at 11:23 AM, enran said:

Did we ever get a formal response to the data collection issue?

I havent read this entire thread, but you have to realize that Coil's contract will be subordinated to the contracts of the Content Provider's TOS and Privacy Policies.

Coil may not whoaar out your data, but they cant stop the folks who serve up the services and content you are consuming through the Coil service. 

Only that service provider or content provider can both 1. Serve up your desired service/content and 2. Not sell your data.

In most cases they need your data to preform the service, or deliver the content. But they dont have to whoaar the data out if they've already been paid.

It will probably take a decade for all these Terms of Service to be updated by all the operators.  GDPR has been a bit of a test run.

Edited by KarmaCoverage

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On 9/19/2018 at 9:23 AM, enran said:

Did we ever get a formal response to the data collection issue?

No, we have not.  Personally, I appreciated the first formal response from Coil in this thread since it acknowledged the privacy concerns, but the lack of a follow-up has me back to square one - meaning I won't be using Coil until I hear otherwise.

Bottom line, it doesn't matter how complicated or difficult it is to offer a truly transparent, privacy-minded subscription model to users - it's the future of web monetization.  If Coil can't make that happen, someone else will, somewhere down the line.  Till then, the battle between ad-blockers and ever more invasive advertising tactics will continue.

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@justmoon just to help my understanding, would a website monetized with a Minute meta tag still receive streamed payments from a Coil-enabled visitor?  Or is the implementation only Coil->Coil Monetized, Minute->Minute Monetized.   

Thanks again for all your hard work on this technology.

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9 hours ago, Paradox said:

@justmoon just to help my understanding, would a website monetized with a Minute meta tag still receive streamed payments from a Coil-enabled visitor?  Or is the implementation only Coil->Coil Monetized, Minute->Minute Monetized.   

It's any->any. Of course, the client can refuse to pay if they so choose. In practice, Minute will pay any site and Coil will pay any site in compliance with our Terms of Service.

To be clear, there is no such thing as a "Minute meta tag". There is only the standard Web Monetization meta tag which is supported by Minute, Coil, and hopefully many others in the future.

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@justmoon a few thoughts on the Terms of Service that I worked on today - most of these will be more relevant in common law countries and the EU. At some stage, you may want to consider jurisdiction-specific annexures if your client base is spread across those locations.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1780IrPxhiQPDrxr2HtaOypyEXUgzTPYa

As I mentioned in my opening comments on the doc, the agreement is typically one-sided (meaning not unusual for public-facing IT contracts) which is something I usually advise against. Those one-sided contracts have a habit of backfiring and can often provide less protection than what the language would otherwise suggest. That said, I'm responding as a potential user and your legal advisers will advise what's best for Coil (even if it looks a bit "belts and braces").

The Privacy Policy is nicely detailed and points to a problem that very few people understand: there is so much data already collected on web citizens that sites can legitimately provide access to a lot of personal information, particularly from "weak" privacy jurisdictions to "strong" ones (the EU is still the gold standard in that regard, the US not so much). I still feel really uncomfortable about the Policy but it's akin to the discomfort I have about 90% of online privacy terms. I think the pendulum will swing back to citizens once a tech solution is identified that grants citizens greater control over the use of their personal information.

While the GDPR placed the brakes on those organisations who flagrantly abused the trust of their users, what it doesn't do is stop "legitimate use" of personally identifiable information - an aircraft carrier sized loophole that I'm sure will be tested by "creative" data collectors and receive plenty of judicial consideration.

Finally, I'm strongly of the view that any organisation with pretences to global operations should implement the highest standard when it comes to Privacy and Anti-Corruption, even when that's not always easy to achieve. There's still a way to go but I can only applaud Coil's response to the legitimate questions posed by @Liagala.

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