enrique11 Posted June 19, 2018 Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Capone said: That’s the whole point, banks will never go for totally decentralized, permissionless where they have no control. And if you stop and think about it for a while the government will never allow it. It’s a matter of national security !!! Not financial advice, just my opinion. You make a good point here (highlighted above)...banks don't want to lose the control they've had traditionally. As time goes by (way in the future!) I don't think they'll have a choice, particularly the commercial banks if central banks some day way in the future decide to issue digital fiat to the public. Maybe, that's even the reason some banks will choose Stellar..."if you can't fight 'em join 'em mentality"....it's very difficult at this early stage to see how this will all play out. Still, commercial banks play an important role in KYC/AML compliance and they provide public, commercial loans, so I don't see that aspect of their business dying off anytime soon if at all. Central banks don't do KYC/AML and if they issue their own digital fiat, it is more likely to be used privately for interbanks transfers, payments within the country's borders way before they will be able to offer digital fiat to the public, and then there are tons of legal hurdles to a national digital currency, other risk-related considerations that congress would have to pass, and that could take years and years and... Edited June 20, 2018 by enrique11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enrique11 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, default said: considering how many big FIs are working with Ripple, they feel perfectly fine with going slowly. Maybe SDF has more to lose if they don't act fast. Which is one of the reasons they're so heavily in bed with IBM's blockchain department. There are many reasons for different paces. And according to whom is Stellar Consensus Protocol currently decentralized? How many validators are there that are non-SDF/IBM run? I don't know how many officially, but one recent youtube video I saw the youtuber claimed it was only 20 validators (It's almost like EOS ? ) , which is nothing, but on the plus side... From stellar.org: Quote Risk and the Stellar Network The Stellar network mitigates risk through a decentralized and distributed structure. If Stellar.org were to disappear, the network would continue to confirm transactions, and anchors could still integrate with the network at any time. All Stellar Core validators are run by community members external to Stellar.org. Stellar.org runs a pair of non-validating read replicas and archives history to our own Amazon S3 buckets. But anyway, both protocols are limited in this following respect: an ideal protocol would get faster as you add more and more validators...Ripple and Stellar don't do that. You see?! I can find negative things about both protocols!!! Edited June 20, 2018 by enrique11 additional comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mm34505 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 12 minutes ago, enrique11 said: I don't know how many officially, but one recent youtube video I saw the youtuber claimed it was only 20 validators (It's almost like EOS ? ) , which is nothing, but on the plus side... From stellar.org: But anyway, both protocols are limited in this following respect: an ideal protocol would get faster as you add more and more validators...Ripple and Stellar don't do that. Can you show me where the SEC said Stellar wasn't a security? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enrique11 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, mm34505 said: Can you show me where the SEC said Stellar wasn't a security? They haven't...I didn't say that....I just think a non-profit that's indeed acting as a non-profit would have a hard time calling attention from the SEC in a negative way. There is the stellar inflation, but that's not paid out from profit like a real security would, like stock dividends (these are paid out from the profit a company makes)...the inflation actually in theory devalues the existing stellars, and when it's paid out to your wallet, you're merely "breaking even". Edited June 20, 2018 by enrique11 additional comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enrique11 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Anyway, I think this thread settles the fact that I'm not an XRP FUDder...I just prefer Stellar and own both. I won't bring it up anymore...it's my fault for bringing it up in the first place...but I do it to contrast it sometimes with Ripple's approach. I will never bring it up again here in this forum...ever again...lol...even if asked about it...you guys already know where I stand, and I've already put out enough information about it from those who asked in this particular thread and from some of my past posts. I hope we'll all succeed in cryptos, regardless of which ones we choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xrpmeplease Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, enrique11 said: Anyway, I think this thread settles the fact that I'm not an XRP FUDder...I just prefer Stellar and own both. I won't bring it up anymore...it's my fault for bringing it up in the first place...but I do it to contrast it sometimes with Ripple's approach. I will never bring it up again here in this forum...ever again...lol...even if asked about it...you guys already know where I stand, and I've already put out enough information about it from those who asked in this particular thread and from some of my past posts. I hope we'll all succeed in cryptos, regardless of which ones we choose. u done any reading on Jed history? Stellar current status as an NPO (re regulatory/IRS filings)? if not you should...good luck to you enrique11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enrique11 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 1 minute ago, xrpmeplease said: u done any reading on Jed history? Stellar current status as an NPO (re regulatory/IRS filings)? if not you should...good luck to you OK..thx...I'll check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mm34505 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 59 minutes ago, enrique11 said: Anyway, I think this thread settles the fact that I'm not an XRP FUDder...I just prefer Stellar and own both. I won't bring it up anymore...it's my fault for bringing it up in the first place...but I do it to contrast it sometimes with Ripple's approach. I will never bring it up again here in this forum...ever again...lol...even if asked about it...you guys already know where I stand, and I've already put out enough information about it from those who asked in this particular thread and from some of my past posts. I hope we'll all succeed in cryptos, regardless of which ones we choose. you choose xlm over xrp we get it but XLM has a long way to go so good look and hope SEC clears you enrique11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmatt44 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 6 hours ago, enrique11 said: No, XRP itself is not a security...it has too much utility. It's Ripple's use of and control over XRP and its influence over the network and various parameters thereof that make exchanges and the SEC question whether it's a security IMO. I've made this exact point in the discord chat and then got banned for spreading FUD. Ripple is too heavy handed in the XRP ecosystem ( for instance the entire new logo debacle). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enrique11 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Bmatt44 said: I've made this exact point in the discord chat and then got banned for spreading FUD. Ripple is too heavy handed in the XRP ecosystem ( for instance the entire new logo debacle). I hear ya...that's tough...I hope it's not an official Ripple discord channel, and instead just community driven. I don't know how this symbol got chosen...if I didn't know any better, I would say the votes got spammed to choose the worst symbol of all available (basically a black letter "X") to show on coinmarketcap.com. It does look good when you really, really blow up the symbol...like on a shirt, but yeah, it's basically a debacle when you look at websites on your computer screen and it appears in a similar font size, shape, and even black color, imagine that! lol, as this --->>> X <<<----- upper-case letter! Edited June 20, 2018 by enrique11 additional comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enrique11 Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) I really don't care about the symbol at this point as long as SEC gives Ripple/XRP and us a break, and Ripple's marketcap is able to shoot up once more. I think the intended users of the network, the FIs, should do the symbol...they have to work to do a worse job than we have...I'd like to think of the current symbol as temporary until some other groups decides. Why not have non-ripple run validators vote on some symbols after the network is sufficiently decentralized...make it official by having the vote written to the ledger, one vote per validator? ? Edited June 20, 2018 by enrique11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raz Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 6 hours ago, enrique11 said: IBM holds 0 lumens....Stellar hasn't sold lumens to others that I'm aware of, and they had a huge initial free distribution of lumens. Exactly, the problem with stellar is they create more and more of them. If Xrp is deflationary xlm is inflationary. Out of the two I would chose the one that doesn’t create more out of nothing. Hmmm, sounds like an organization I’ve heard of... earl banks, no that’s not right. Maybe whirl banks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
protechtor Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 For those who are not aware, Ripple entered into an agreement with FinCen and the US Attorneys office to comply with bi-annual audits through 2020 as part of a settlement in 2015. http://bitcoinist.com/great-ripple-debate-fincen-ruling-labels-xrp-currency-not-security/ They have been under FinCen scrutiny since at least 2015, and have a ruling authorizing Ripple to sell XRP. Let that soak in. How would it now look for the SEC to come out as charge them with offering an unregistered security 3 years later, while they are in compliance with regular audits of the Dept of Treasury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Britak Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 (edited) Right guys you all forget very important part of law that, especially SEC, have to abide - and that is suggesting the outcome of active court proceedings. Ripple is having a lawsuit and there is no way anyone will tell you this or that before the judge makes a decision or asks them for opinion. Lets now put this to bed - xrp is not security, its just that we need to wait for judge to say. Thanks. Edited June 20, 2018 by Britak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PunishmentOfLuxury Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 49 minutes ago, Britak said: Right guys you all forget very important part of law that, especially SEC, have to abide - and that is suggesting the outcome of active court proceedings. Ripple is having a lawsuit and there is no way anyone will tell you this or that before the judge makes a decision or asks them for opinion. Lets now put this to bed - xrp is not security, its just that we need to wait for judge to say. Thanks. Do you have a source for your assertion that the SEC has to wait for the judge? Because court proceedings are probably going to take until 2020. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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