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The Burning Question: Is XRP a security? Going in depth


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3 minutes ago, xrp_moonjet said:

But Ripple is distributing XRP to the community that are interested in building ecosystem around XRPLedger with the help of Xpring program right ? 

 

 

I don't know...I'm so focused on the SEC and learning as much as I can about securities that I pretty much ignore all else regarding Ripple or just look at the other stuff superficially.

Edited by enrique11
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21 minutes ago, elias said:

I've never managed to understand Stellar's distribution program. Their dashboard with the figures on is just confusing to me. Could you describe it briefly, how do they intend to distribute the coins?

Quote

How are lumens distributed?

Stellar.org intends to distribute the initial 100 billion lumens as follows:

50% given away to individuals:

A small (50-300 XLM) amount of lumens will be given to each unique individual who signs up through an invitation link. You may get an invitation from one of our partners or by attending one of our meetups.

25% given away to partners:

Lumens will be given to businesses, governments, institutions, or nonprofit organizations that contribute to the growth and adoption of the Stellar ecosystem.

20% given away to bitcoin and XRP holders:

Stellar.org distributed lumens to holders of bitcoin and XRP (19% for bitcoin holders and 1% for XRP holders). This giveaway was completed in two rounds: one round was completed in October 2016 and another was completed in August 2017. Stellar.org does not intend to conduct another round of lumen giveaways for bitcoin or XRP holders.

5% reserved for Stellar.org operational expenses

 

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1 minute ago, enrique11 said:

I don't know...I'm so focused on the SEC and learning as much as I can about securities that I pretty much ignore all else regarding Ripple or just look at the other stuff superficially.

I am 100% sure that XRP will not be deemed as a security.

Reason: If XRP is a security, SEC won't be quiet this long. They went after Bitconnect and other few scam coins immediately. And also from day 1, all the Execs from Ripple are saying that they are always working with Regulations and they want the ecosystem to evolve with the regulations. 

Also Former SEC chair is going to represent XRP. Do you think that she will agree to take in a losing case? 

The question of security or not a security are just a way of Bitcoin Maximalist to confuse the investors. Ripple's contribution to boost XRP's ecosystem is very solid and there is lot of backing to what they speak.. They are responsible and professional. So I am sure XRP will not be treated as a Security 

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Just now, enrique11 said:

I used to be ticked off, when I held XRP and Jed started dumping ripple on the market and the price took a dive...it took me a long time to get over it, but I finally understand where he's coming from.   With all these banking products and solutions just for FIs make Ripple the "Microsoft" of cross-border payments and Stellar is the "open-source anyone can join" version of that, in my opinion.  Does that mean Stellar will succeed and not Ripple? No. Does it Ripple succeeds and Stellar fails? No.   It's just that one is more closely aligned with my values than the other. 

It's not just about ideology to me. It's about how you deal with things. Reading stellard github from 2014 gives you an idea how lost and reckless they were with implementation of new things to the protocol, many things were added unreviewed and rippled guys, like vinnie falco and joel katz were giving words of warning to them. Then they forked and blamed "ripple/stellar" algo for being unsafe. That's dirty.

 

Then the giveaways. Facebook giveaway was a disaster. Jed was trying to force ripple to do one back when he was at ripple, but the board disagreed strongly. Bitcoin giveaway hasn't been nearly as popular as SDF apparently expected. What happened to the unclaimed lumens? Stellar holds them now to fund their operational costs. I dunno. I just don't like how they deal with stuff.

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10 minutes ago, default said:

I dunno, rubs me the wrong way when stellar folks (especially Jed) have been portraying Ripple as this evil corporate machine, while they're acting as if they're transparent nonprofit do-gooders, when they're not really transparent at all. Each to their own, but history has been showing me too many red flags. Starting from Jed's MtGox hustling with Karpeles and the missing 80k bitcoins which he mentioned after Karpeles got the ownership. Also Jed's dump declaration in may 2014 was absolutely unprofessional and moronic.

"I was angry at Jed, mostly because his own account was hacked and resulted in the whole event, yet by contract I had to protect him." Mark Karpeles

Jed's own account was hacked huh? Imagine that.

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2 hours ago, elias said:

But Jay Clayton didn't single out ETH as a non-security either, did he?

You're right!!...Clayton only declared bitcoin and other such fiat currency replacements as not being securities.., but subsequently and not too long after, ETH was deemed a non-security by Hinman, not Clayton, and not in that interview.

Edited by enrique11
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I’m sorry @enrique11 but you do come across as a wolf in sheeps clothing. 

Touting Stellar like they are the good moral choice.

stating you own Xrp to throw suspicion away is just lazy reverse psychology, it’s just like Trump saying “I’m not racist, but let’s build a wall” - it’s all a bit oxymoronic.

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10 minutes ago, default said:

It's not just about ideology to me. It's about how you deal with things. Reading stellard github from 2014 gives you an idea how lost and reckless they were with implementation of new things to the protocol, many things were added unreviewed and rippled guys, like vinnie falco and joel katz were giving words of warning to them. Then they forked and blamed "ripple/stellar" algo for being unsafe. That's dirty.

 

Then the giveaways. Facebook giveaway was a disaster. Jed was trying to force ripple to do one back when he was at ripple, but the board disagreed strongly. Bitcoin giveaway hasn't been nearly as popular as SDF apparently expected. What happened to the unclaimed lumens? Stellar holds them now to fund their operational costs. I dunno. I just don't like how they deal with stuff.

Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but here's the thing.  Stellar IS actually decentralized and doesn't have the same issue with that Ripple has with their validators list to the best of my knowledge...Granted, Ripple has many more validators than Stellar's network,  but why did they wait so long to decentralize?  Not saying they weren't capable of it earlier, but it's not the way to proceed if it's going to be an open and decentralized network, particularly if you want the SEC on your side.  Stellar network came into existence considerable later than the ripple network and took care of this issue in less time...why did Ripple wait..what was the main reason?

Edited by enrique11
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35 minutes ago, enrique11 said:

IBM holds 0 lumens....Stellar hasn't sold lumens to others that I'm aware of, and they had a huge initial free distribution of lumens.

How can you say that ? Do you have any proof of that ? Tell me who owns Stellar and back it up with evidence.

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9 minutes ago, Capone said:

How can you say that ? Do you have any proof of that ? Tell me who owns Stellar and back it up with evidence.

I think I saw a video of where Jessie Lund (VP of IBM blockchain tech) might have said this himself...don't recall exactly, but I think I've heard him mention it before.  Anyway, here's an indirect link to his statement @ 3:04.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvajGWJPJGA&t=6s

 

Edited by enrique11
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2 minutes ago, GalaxyRipple said:

Hi my name is Enrique,  I own XRp but think Ripple are playing with fire and have lots of issues, by the way stellar stellar stellar Stellar lumens, stellar makes me feel like a better person.

That's why I don't invest in tron (entertainment coin), gambling coins, etc.  Some people like money regardless of how it's obtained..some don't...you gotta decide for yourself.

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Just now, enrique11 said:

Maybe you're right, maybe you're wrong, but here's the thing.  Stellar IS actually decentralized and doesn't have the same issue with that Ripple has with their validators list to the best of my knowledge...Granted, Ripple has many more validators than Stellar's network,  but why did they wait so long to decentralize?  Not saying they weren't capable of it earlier, but it's not the way to proceed if it's going to be an open and decentralized network, particularly if you want the SEC on your side.  Stellar came out later and took care of this early...why did Ripple wait..what was the main reason?

considering how many big FIs are working with Ripple, they feel perfectly fine with going slowly. Maybe SDF has more to lose if they don't act fast. Which is one of the reasons they're so heavily in bed with IBM's blockchain department. There are many reasons for different paces.

And according to whom is Stellar Consensus Protocol currently decentralized? How many validators are there that are non-SDF/IBM run?

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5 minutes ago, default said:

considering how many big FIs are working with Ripple, they feel perfectly fine with going slowly. Maybe SDF has more to lose if they don't act fast. Which is one of the reasons they're so heavily in bed with IBM's blockchain department. There are many reasons for different paces.

And according to whom is Stellar Consensus Protocol currently decentralized? How many validators are there that are non-SDF/IBM run?

That’s the whole point, banks will never go for totally decentralized, permissionless where they have no control.

And if you stop and think about it for a while the government will never allow it. 

It’s a matter of national security !!!

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