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Julian_Williams

Will Interledger Be the New World Bank?

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18 minutes ago, Julian_Williams said:

Anyone who likens the

Anyone who likens the Dollar and reserve currencies to an ouroboros is eccentric, creative and worth reading and any predictions about where XRP will end up has to be taken with a pinch of salt.  Having said that Ripple Labs have had a run of getting things right and they seem to be building their suite of products with a lot off forethought.  

Broadly the project, as outlined by Hodor, started with the founders trying to get rid of PoW and Mining for a lending network, this research allowed them to speed up and scale up the Ledgers (as I understand it)  Targeting SWIFT was an afterthought, and now that their Internet of Value is beginning to become reality the concepts that spin off it are beginning to multiply.  Replacing SWIFT and then the Dollar as a World Reserve Currency were not objectives in the minds of Ripple founders when they started.  The spin-offs look to be huge, from providing replacements for credit cards to micropayments attached to aps and smart contracts. 

I remember in about 1998 trying to buy domain names that would predict the usages of the internet, for instance: Vidoephones and Wristphones were two I wanted to buy.  Both have happened but in oblique manners, in the end it was Snapchat, Twitter, Texting, Selfies and Uber that dominated the usage of i-phones.  No one sets off to buy a videophone or wristphone.

I have heard that Digital wallets might become our bank accounts, but without banks at all being needed.  Like many homes do not have a land line any more, future genreations might not have bank accounts. Digital Wallets, (I do not own one, my XRP are bought through Etoro) might be incorporated into our mobile phones (I do not own one), so I am right out of my comfort zone here. 

I dont think banks are going anywhere. Bankers are as old as money and no one gives up that kind of power. We could probably see wallets being run and controlled by banks. Private wallets wont be allowed. If they exist in the future they wont have access to the financial systems. So the wallets we have now will bexome blackmarket stuff. But no doubt everything will have to pass through banks.

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31 minutes ago, MaxEntropy said:

Hodor... is a good natured and well meaning zealot.

I can easily see Ripple taking on the glue functionality for nation state crypto fiat and BIS/CB services... for as long they exist. I have said, that the muppets here, will do very well financially, but this is not a paradigm shifting mental state or participation in the future. Ho-hum... what software developer wishes to embrace more of the current power dynamics??

--

What is required is the ability to trade value independently of the centralized power brokers. This will not happen with the visionaries at Ripple. As Margaret Meade would say... innovation comes from the edge and fringe thinking. This is the space of AI Bots and DEXs... coupled with merchant adoption at the end points. These concepts are outside the scope of the Ripple's central banks.

There is not a single country that does not understand the burden that the central banking folk play in everything... these folks need to be dis-intermediated. I do not see Ripple working in this direction. Thousands of cryptos coupled with DEXs - operating outside the scope of the central bank's will diminish their role, to the point that they are ineffectual and not profitable. Remember the middle men do not provide value.

 

not sure what dis-intermediated means. 

I think change happens of it own accord and creative thought is mostly about pulling a string of thought and finding out where it leads you to.  Ripple Laps seem pretty good at pulling a bits of string and being responsive and adaptive to changing landscapes.  As such I think what they have started, combined with there record of being flexible and innovative, could well lead them to outcomes that will overtake institutions created in a previous outdated world.

I agree that Ripple investors, whatever the outcome,  are investing in something that will provide a very good return and that it is too early to know where "the internet of Value" will lead.

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45 minutes ago, Julian_Williams said:

not sure what dis-intermediated means. 

I think change happens of it own accord and creative thought is mostly about pulling a string of thought and finding out where it leads you to.  Ripple Laps seem pretty good at pulling a bits of string and being responsive and adaptive to changing landscapes.  As such I think what they have started, combined with there record of being flexible and innovative, could well lead them to outcomes that will overtake institutions created in a previous outdated world.

I agree that Ripple investors, whatever the outcome,  are investing in something that will provide a very good return and that it is too early to know where "the internet of Value" will lead.

dis-intermediated = without (Fin Inst.) intermediates i.e. the people in between, the 3rd parties (sometimes 4th and more) which facilitate transactions and add cost.

without intermediates = less business for Ripple on their current model

Hope that sums it up 

Edited by kuyu

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Banks will provide the ledger layer, which will be rooted in a legal jurisdiction, and the banks have deep regulatory talent and will easily provide the regulatory layer.

I think there will be both on-XRPLedger fiat and Central bank issued fiat.

The central bank question has come up a few times. here

Quote

 

It will be interesting to see if they create a single ledger for just the 12 regional Feds, and keep the participants restricted to Only Fed Banks. Then layer in another layer for "participating banks" (not sure the right word), similar to the banks who can currently access the Fed Window, or currently have access to Fedwire. Then the "participating banks" act as an insulation layer, and the banks can participate with Ripple's ledger for international payments, and possibly another RCL for domestic payments. 

This would keep the Fed's core ledger where the "real USD" is issued, insulated by 2 layers for all international & domestic payments.

In short I dont see any issue with the Fed running it's own RCL (or other ledger) and stacking a few ledger/networks on top of each other with varying permission sets and tweaked for specific use case needs. 

The international RCL ledger/network can play it's specific role, and ILP can connect the various layers of ledger/networks.

What if final settlement in "real USD" occurred within a ledger like the last sentence... "This would keep the Fed's core ledger where the "real USD" is issued, insulated by 2 layers for all international & domestic payments."

 

 

Edited by KarmaCoverage

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1 hour ago, MaxEntropy said:

I can easily see Ripple taking on the glue functionality for nation state crypto fiat and BIS/CB services... for as long they exist. I have said, that the muppets here, will do very well financially, but this is not a paradigm shifting mental state or participation in the future. Ho-hum... what software developer wishes to embrace more of the current power dynamics??

Max, be nice.  ("Muppets"?  Not nice.)  So long as you're gonna be nice, I'll play with you.  (But I'm beginning to notice an alarming lack of compassion, coupled with a bit of narcissism - ok?)

First, these long-range forecast articles, especially the ones with the big "false equivalency" (x IS the new y) premises are always "wrong" to some extent.  They may be directionally right, but the further they go out in time, the less their fit becomes tight.  (Obvious, right?)  So, like David Byrne, "don't worry about the government":   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9CjnDufqeQ

Now, I'm not gonna go through your whole post, but, speaking as a muppet who couldn't read Margaret Mead (without wanting to gag a bit at her need to push her own mores onto everyone else, to feel better about herself - though damned if she - or anyone else writing that sort of "Joan Didion dresses up in 'science' garb and goes on a safari" crap - ever made that connection), consider how a muppet might feel about your implicit assumption that "software developers" should be (or are) the arbiters of culture, society, truth - or anything else.  That "power dynamic", which you clearly assume to be, a priori, "the way it oughta be", IS (which, to not fall into the false equivalency trap, I'll say: "can usefully be seen as") one of the very things that muppets fear.

Put more simply, in deference to you:  "It's like you think we want your 'help', because you so badly need to feel 'useful' that you only see us as 'muppets' who need a saviour to deliver them."

And you don't seem to want to take "No, thanks" as an answer.

There's a name for that;  don't turn into what you claim to hate.

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34 minutes ago, kuyu said:

dis-intermediated = without (Fin Inst.) intermediates i.e. the people in between, the 3rd parties (sometimes 4th and more) which facilitate transactions and add cost.

without intermediates = less business for Ripple on their current model

Hope that sums it up 

OK - get that, but actually the point of the discussion was that the intermediary usurps the mediary rather than the mediaries survive and get rid of the intermediary.

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1 hour ago, Ivandebeers said:

I dont think banks are going anywhere. Bankers are as old as money and no one gives up that kind of power. We could probably see wallets being run and controlled by banks. Private wallets wont be allowed. If they exist in the future they wont have access to the financial systems. So the wallets we have now will bexome blackmarket stuff. But no doubt everything will have to pass through banks.

yes, I agree, the wallets cannot not be totally hidden from the scrutiny of the authorities; they would be mini tax havens.  But how are the authorities going to regulate wallets?  I suppose this is why crypto need to be regulated before this new way of handling money is too far out of the gate. 

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Guest

@MaxEntropy  Hodor a zealot?  He’s passionate about his belief, but phrasing it in a negative connotation of zealotry is just passive-aggressive.  That being said, the definition of a zealot would actually fit you.  Your single-minded pursuit of disparaging the leadership of Ripple, the innovation and it’s native asset kind of fits the bill of zealot there, Max.  

Edited by Guest

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@NightJanitor

Chomsky has stated recently that 'spoken language' was originated to NOT give directives to others, but rather to speak to oneself. I use that context here, in that regard. It is for my benefit. Others may find value.

The point about 'muppets' is that if you were to sift through the tons of digital verbiage on XRPchat, you might get only a few pounds of insightful content. The authors of the tons on digital verbiage, if they are following Chomsky's model - must be muppets by definition. Search dancing 'bananas', 'awesome', etc.

I struggle to find meaning much of the thinking... here. The points I have raised re: Ripple are valid. As stakeholders in Ripple we do have an interest in what the company does and how they do it.

i would suggest to you, that if you hold XRP, then you should expect more.

:-)

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3 hours ago, MaxEntropy said:

Hodor... is a good natured and well meaning zealot.

I can easily see Ripple taking on the glue functionality for nation state crypto fiat and BIS/CB services... for as long they exist. I have said, that the muppets here, will do very well financially, but this is not a paradigm shifting mental state or participation in the future. Ho-hum... what software developer wishes to embrace more of the current power dynamics??

--

What is required is the ability to trade value independently of the centralized power brokers. This will not happen with the visionaries at Ripple. As Margaret Meade would say... innovation comes from the edge and fringe thinking. This is the space of AI Bots and DEXs... coupled with merchant adoption at the end points. These concepts are outside the scope of the Ripple's central banks.

There is not a single country that does not understand the burden that the central banking folk play in everything... these folks need to be dis-intermediated. I do not see Ripple working in this direction. Thousands of cryptos coupled with DEXs - operating outside the scope of the central bank's will diminish their role, to the point that they are ineffectual and not profitable. Remember the middle men do not provide value.

 

You underestimate the need for middle men ( in general and historically ),  the ability of the middle men to change and the entrance of new ( sorts of) middle men in times of change ( paradigm shifts). 

Yes the world ( financial world in particular) will change, and it will take a decade to see in hindsight what the paradigm shift really was. But you’ll see that middle men will be around everywhere, just in a ( very) different form, but middle men nevertheless.

 

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1 hour ago, MaxEntropy said:

i would suggest to you, that if you hold XRP, then you should expect more.

As a gesture of fairness and goodwill, in parting, I will take your above advice.
Here's my "milk-bone" wallet:  rwqeqvWZxR3pJzEKY9WmDogPAypRKWaeJM

Chomsky owes me, big-time, too, for having to listen to him bark at the moon!

(He didn't even pay for dinner;  maybe you should 'help' him and cash his IOU!)

I remember what he said, too:  "That kind of thing - it's just not on my agenda..."

Gotta be careful picking "heroes", Max.  Some of them stick you with the bill...

Of course, I'm sure he thought he did me the favor; enlightening me and all. :rolleyes:

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