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Walmart and Moneygram for global money transfers.

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7 hours ago, kuyu said:

Yes I understand but I still disagree. Of course, like I mentioned previously, this is not a black and white issue. Still, I think I add value by making these arguments as I still don't see the connection of some of the previous comments to reality. Even Ripple's marketing material seems to contradict the logic behind them. 

So some more food for thought and probably end it here. No point becoming bothersome plus I wanna look into other threads as well :)

 

If there is such a way to get many many people into a system that is exhangeing value in a given currency (liquidity) then you’ll increase that liquidity and make it easier to get in and out of a given currency.   - Which Ripple solution does this for many people?

Lack if liquidity (which is also a technological issue) is a major problem.  - Ripple wants to solve this issue for intermediaries. Not individuals. Yes, to some extent some capital can be freed but there is generally an overestimation in some of these threads,  regarding the impact on the everyday life of a citizen. Those savings are far more likely to manifest as dividends and bonuses and investments back into operations, than any grand benevolent financial inclusivity scheme. Here's a counter example greater automation = greater global and evenly shared financial prosperity ? Actually no. Primarily we only see the top tier wealthy getting wealthier and corporate tax evading coffers and/or treasuries growing. 

Liquidity had given the United States power and authority since after World War II. Liquidity is key.   I would argue that the US is has acquired those things, through the number and size of their weapons and the fact that they spend the most (by an obscene amount) on defense, as compared to any other nation. I think given the circumstances, this argument explains more than the argument of liquidity. Military US might is partly if not mostly responsible for the enduring power of the dollar. Then follow American industry and the acquisition of intellectual capital, which is what I admire the US most for. 

 

Regarding a solution that does this for many people, look at what Mojaloop is doing through ILP. 

For instance, if a bank wants to give loans to people in third world countries, they don't really have a way of doing that right now. BUT, if there was a solution where banks could give microloans to people with various qualifications that can be tracked using APIs through bank accounts (already exists https://plaid.com/), then you simply need a way to get banks to be able to give money in a given currency via their own stack of capital. Let's say Bank of Internet would like to loan someone a small amount of money in a different currency, they could do it via ILP, XRP, various APIs that lead to data, and a cell phone. If it's digitized, that's how you'd do it. I'm not the expert here, but talk to @buckor as he is more versed in loans to other countries. 

 

By solving the issue for intermediaries you can solve it for individuals. That'd be like saying whoever invented the combustion engine wasn't targeting individuals. Of course they weren't. Ford did that. But you have to develop the technology. 

Unfortunately you're just not quite correct when it comes to your assertion about liquidity. Do some reading regarding Bretton Woods and the Petro dollar. These aren't conspiracies. This is why the world is the way it is right now. Military might has protected liquidity through defending the sale of oil in dollars. Liquidity is everything. 

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13 minutes ago, Hodlezerper said:

Regarding a solution that does this for many people, look at what Mojaloop is doing through ILP. 

For instance, if a bank wants to give loans to people in third world countries, they don't really have a way of doing that right now. BUT, if there was a solution where banks could give microloans to people with various qualifications that can be tracked using APIs through bank accounts (already exists https://plaid.com/), then you simply need a way to get banks to be able to give money in a given currency via their own stack of capital. Let's say Bank of Internet would like to loan someone a small amount of money in a different currency, they could do it via ILP, XRP, various APIs that lead to data, and a cell phone. If it's digitized, that's how you'd do it. I'm not the expert here, but talk to @buckor as he is more versed in loans to other countries. 

 

By solving the issue for intermediaries you can solve it for individuals. That'd be like saying whoever invented the combustion engine wasn't targeting individuals. Of course they weren't. Ford did that. But you have to develop the technology. 

Unfortunately you're just not quite correct when it comes to your assertion about liquidity. Do some reading regarding Bretton Woods and the Petro dollar. These aren't conspiracies. This is why the world is the way it is right now. Military might has protected liquidity through defending the sale of oil in dollars. Liquidity is everything. 

Regarding mojaloop

 

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21 minutes ago, Hodlezerper said:

Let's say someone comes in with cash and deposits at your moneygram kiosk. You can make a fairly easy assumption that the cash is legitimate. You take it in, credit their account, which allows someone else to come in and remove that deposit. Meanwhile all the settlement or currency conversion happens after the fact, but you trust its legit because its basically cash and it's also a small amount of money, so if you get burned it's not the end of the world. 

Yes that would be the first step. But how would that money arrive in my bank account within 10 min?

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11 minutes ago, mrenne_17 said:

Yes that would be the first step. But how would that money arrive in my bank account within 10 min?

It's this exact part that has me boggled as well. Either there is a competitor with a competing product that does exactly what xRapid sets out to do, which we've been completely oblivious to. Or there might be an underlying connection between Ripple/xRapid and Wallmart as opposed to our expectation of it being within the Moneygram-Ripple partnership (hello household name). There might also be the possibility that the international bank accounts and mobile wallets are limited to specific providers with existing connections as opposed to it being deposited on any international bank account or mobile wallet.

But let's assume for a moment it's xRapid. We know for a fact not every corridor is serviceable by xRapid in it's current capacity. This raises more questions than answers. Ugh.

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I totally agree with you @dutchpinoy!

It is just not possible, not even with rapid, as it would involve every single bank in the world. 

As you say, some banks may offer the 10 minute service but certainly not any bank.

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On 4/3/2018 at 9:50 AM, Dutchpinoy said:

What I'm getting at is that the new wallmart/MG offering is a remittance service in which transfers take place within 10 minutes. 10 minutes for cash pickup at agent locations and 10 minutes deposits on international bank accounts. Bank account deposits within 10 minutes of initiating the transfer is damn fast.

Jan - "What do you mean exactly by international bank deposit? WU has a global network of agents that provide the service, and they keep a cash reserve for the customers. Wire transfer service was unheard of in the WU services. My customers would call the recipient straight away after I gave a confirmation number. Typically it showed on my screen that the cash was widthdrawn few minutes later."

Nowhere in Jan's statement was mention of anything about Bank account deposits. It was purely somebody giving cash to a WU agent who then does a conversion, picks up the phone thereby clearing the agent at another location to release the equivalent amount of capital of what was just dropped off. There isn't any banking taking place other than WU taking money in and giving it out instantly in countries they are cleared to do business in on a cash basis. Zero sum game, currency moves aside.

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4 minutes ago, XRPonTheIronThrone said:

Jan - "What do you mean exactly by international bank deposit? WU has a global network of agents that provide the service, and they keep a cash reserve for the customers. Wire transfer service was unheard of in the WU services. My customers would call the recipient straight away after I gave a confirmation number. Typically it showed on my screen that the cash was widthdrawn few minutes later."

Nowhere in Jan's statement was mention of anything about Bank account deposits. It was purely somebody giving cash to a WU agent who then does a conversion, picks up the phone thereby clearing the agent at another location to release the equivalent amount of capital of what was just dropped off. There isn't any banking taking place other than WU taking money in and giving it out instantly in countries they are cleared to do business in on a cash basis. Zero sum game, currency moves aside.

What are you on about. He asked me what I meant by it. I explained.

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Just now, Dutchpinoy said:

What are you on about. He asked me what I meant by it. I explained.

Just making sure everyone was on the same page, Jan was talking about cash pickup through WU agents (a lot of clamoring about that) while everyone else was focused on cash deposits and banking (WU not doing this). Two very different things. Sure seemed like a confused situation, a "who's on first."  That's what i'm on about. 

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1 hour ago, Dutchpinoy said:

It's this exact part that has me boggled as well. Either there is a competitor with a competing product that does exactly what xRapid sets out to do, which we've been completely oblivious to. Or there might be an underlying connection between Ripple/xRapid and Wallmart as opposed to our expectation of it being within the Moneygram-Ripple partnership (hello household name). There might also be the possibility that the international bank accounts and mobile wallets are limited to specific providers with existing connections as opposed to it being deposited on any international bank account or mobile wallet.

But let's assume for a moment it's xRapid. We know for a fact not every corridor is serviceable by xRapid in it's current capacity. This raises more questions than answers. Ugh.

You  mixing transaction, settlement and the counterpart risk. If payment goes Sender currency->VISA->MG->local currency it can be done in 10 minutes without XRP. I made transactions in seconds with WU. But the issue is the counterpart risk... in the example the risk is taken bij Visa, but this comes with high fees.

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1 hour ago, Gepster said:

This 10 minute transaction time thing is certainly possible without using a digital aset.  It's just not real time settlement.

The score is settled later and someone is taking counterparty risk.

It is certainly possible to do this, I do not question that. But this does require a certain cooperation of the receiving bank, doesn’t it? Do all the banks in the world cooperate?

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Ok just an interjection. Omisego is quite similar to the original Ripple vision. See if that helps see the same or proximal issues under a different lens.

 

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