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Brad hints at something HUGE...

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1 minute ago, Tyrell said:

I would like to agree with a 10 year schedule, but Hashgraph might have other plans (if it works on large scales).  Or whatever supplants it, which is probably more likely.

One of the potentially funny things is that banks are finally moving into the 21st century, and they are probably going to join the blockchain movement just as it becomes old news.  But that would be fitting, since they are already working with news that was beaten to death in the previous century.

Hashgraph is nothing more than a consensus algorithm AFAIK. There is no coin AFAIK. Ripple could actually implement Hashgraph for consensus in case this would make any difference. Do I miss something here? 

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My understanding is that converting to hashgraph would be an incredible undertaking.  The idea is not that hashgraph (or, more likely, what occurs after) would supplant XRP with a new coin, but that it would potentially make blockchain and all coins unnecessary. But none of that is going to happen anytime soon.  Right now, as far as I can tell, the biggest problem with hashgraph is that it has never been tested on a large scale.  It might be worthless.

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10 minutes ago, Tyrell said:

The idea is not that hashgraph (or, more likely, what occurs after) would supplant XRP with a new coin, but that it would potentially make blockchain and all coins unnecessary

No. I believe @xh3b4sd is right - it's a consensus algorithm and you'd still need a 'token' of some kind to transfer 'value' from transactions on the ledger.

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Just now, Tyrell said:

You could be right.  But why is there no coin currently?

 

Because it is just a consensus algorithm. It is technology for distributed applications to reach consensus in order to coordinate any kind of process. This would not make blockchain obsolete but more supreme. 

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10 minutes ago, xh3b4sd said:

Because it is just a consensus algorithm. It is technology for distributed applications to reach consensus in order to coordinate any kind of process. This would not make blockchain obsolete but more supreme. 

My understanding is that it is a data structure and consensus algorithm. It functions in a way similar to blockchain without the need for blocks.

Blockchain arose as a means to solve the problem of bank failures ala 2007 with Bitcoin at its center.  Bitcoin was the 'new currency', but blockchain was the real innovation.  Why must coins be involved in this?  If other data structures are created, other consensus mechanisms created in future, why must coins be involved?

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6 minutes ago, Tyrell said:

My understanding is that it is a data structure and consensus algorithm. It functions in a way similar to blockchain without the need for blocks.

Blockchain arose as a means to solve the problem of bank failures ala 2007 with Bitcoin at its center.  Bitcoin was the 'new currency', but blockchain was the real innovation.  Why must coins be involved in this?  If other data structures are created, other consensus mechanisms created in future, why must coins be involved?

Coins do not have to be involved in consensus algorithms. Coins act as incentive within a system in order to keep it running. There may be different incentives to keep a system running though. You may want to have that incentive in order to keep the consensus process up, but you do not have to have it designed that way. For instance Ripple uses a custom implementation of PBFT, where XRP is not part of the consensus itself. In XBT you have the asset as incentive to mine a new block after wasting some energy in order to put some transactions into the new block. This system is designed to get some coins in order to process transactions. The coin is the incentive to keep the consensus of the network going. Everything has its advantages and drawbacks. 

Edited by xh3b4sd

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Transcript from video of Mr. G-House interview:

"Well, it's a good question... I think the highest friction points are where you're gonna where you get the most... (seems to get tongue tied searching for right word), uh the area where you get the most engagement/velocity are the areas where, today, you have the most friction.  And, y'know, when we think about our priority customers, it isn't a Euro/US problem, right?  Er, a US dollar/Euro problem.  On the other hand, uh, and another thing I mentioned to David backstage:  I was in talking to one of the largest global, money-center banks on the planet and I was talking to them about our primary product, fiat to fiat, called xCurrent.  And this guy kinda interrupts me he's like, 'yeah, yeah, yeah, that's nice but I have a problem settling into Peru.  Can I use XRP to help me settle into Peru?'

And, honestly, I was like, holy ****!  Like, y'know, here's this biggest bank in the world who has more liquidity than almost anybody out there and I'm not even trying to talk to them about crypto and digital assets.  I'm trying to talk to them about the core of fiat to fiat... and, y'know, he's already looking ahead and realizing that, look, this is something that helps me solve a problem in Peru and I don't necessarily want to hold currency in Peru from an inflation point of view or regulatory risk point or compliance risk.  They're looking for other solutions.  And, again, if you solve a real problem for real customers, it's gonna work out."

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As for his "holy ****" comment:  Wouldn't that likely be most people's response when you've been through what he and Ripple team have been through i.e. grinding and grinding with these banks just to get your foot in the door with the entry, basic xCurrent product with future hope of winning them over to xRapid and XRP only to have a significant someone at one of the LARGEST banks on the planet just come out of the blue and basically say I need an xrp solution?!?

Mr. G-House is certainly allowed that cuss; especially since he isn't swearing gratuitously and not swearing with nasty intent.  It seems a very honest, unguarded description of what he was really feeling when the incident occurred.  So.... HOLY **** , Brad!  :lol:

Edited by JohnnyRippleSeed

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46 minutes ago, xh3b4sd said:

Coins do not have to be involved in consensus algorithms. Coins act as incentive within a system in order to keep it running. There may be different incentives to keep a system running though. You may want to have that incentive in order to keep the consensus process up, but you do not have to have it designed that way. For instance Ripple uses a custom implementation of PBFT, where XRP is not part of the consensus itself. In XBT you have the asset as incentive to mine a new block after wasting some energy in order to put some transactions into the new block. This system is designed to get some coins in order to process transactions. The coin is the incentive to keep the consensus of the network going. Everything has its advantages and drawbacks. 

Exactly.  So, one of the problems with the current incarnation of hashgraph is that it is run by a single company that insists that anyone using the system must obtain a license from them.  It uses the same economic model that Facebook, Amazon, etc. currently use -- one company that controls all access to a certain service. Pay fees for access; and advertising will likely be involved in future.

Coins are not necessary.  They serve an economic purpose that could be handled by another mechanism (well, that and as anti-spam, but there are other approaches for that too). That, of course, depends on how money flows into the system.  But there are going to be new solutions.  I know this because there is already a new solution.  They insist it will scale.  I'll believe that when I see it work in the wild.

I mention all this for two reasons -- to counter some of the idiocy of Max Entropy (who doesn't seem to see that hashgraph carries with it all that he seems to find distasteful) and to raise a concern.  We don't have 10 years to wait.  Data structures, memory, consensus mechanisms are all going to advance much more quickly than any consider now.

We probably do have 10 years with Ripple and XRP, though.  As I tried to mention earlier -- the banks are adopting the 'current future' which will already be old by the time they adopt it.  And it will work for a decade or more.  Ripple adopted a hybrid economic solution that I think will serve them well.

Edited by Tyrell
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1 hour ago, Tinyaccount said:

I dread this type of thing.....    

Brad tells an anecdote about the acceptance of the concept of XRapid that he is seeing,  and then everyone starts speculating on which one of the big four Money Centre banks wants to adopt XRapid.

So then Twitter gets going on it,  then mainstream media two months later are saying that nothing materialised out of Ripple advising a big Money centre bank was about to use XRapid.  The FUD goes ballistic and the price softens,  then falls,  as weak hands let go.

The thing is that post Swell I have been assuming these sorts of conversations with Ripple are happening all the time.  The big players are not stupid and they can see the writing on the wall about the coming financial tech revolution.  But all this takes time.

The signs are very promising,  and the fundamentals are strong,   and the market appears to be turning around again to rise.  So I expect that we will see a climb again soon,  but I fear we are sowing the seeds of dissapointment here right now as we read too much into every word Brad says.

I still enjoy it because I'm hodling regardless. Speculation makes it fun and gives us something to do and fixate on while the price is consolidating. Otherwise, it is pretty boring around here and I wouldn't participate as much lol. If it eventually causes weak hands to sell if nothing materializes ... Well I call that natural selection lol

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6 hours ago, marousi said:

So much fantasy, you guys will believe anything about xrp. And even if it materializes it will be at least a year before going operational.

image.png.b5a425ede770c93d375f8a3af0e96204.png 

Seems as if Ripple is taking the Disney approach to realizing dreams...or fantasies, as some call them.

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