Superceding paper with Nano S

[Xilobyte]

On 12/18/2017 at 3:21 AM, at3n said:

Warning: extreme paranoia ahead 

@Badger@zenkert

I understand that many people will be put off by the price, and that everyone's circumstances are different, but I would say that most crypto investors think that their chosen coins will significantly increase in price, and hence even a modest initial investment would soon make $67 seem very small. I would say to those people to put their money where their mouth is and buy a hardware wallet!

But now you are saying that you fully trust Chrome Browser more so than any other device or OS......

[at3n]

8 minutes ago, Xilobyte said:

But now you are saying that you fully trust Chrome Browser more so than any other device or OS......

What can Chrome do to alter the transaction created and signed by the Nano?

Also there's a stand-alone app that doesn't use Chrome any more.

[Xilobyte]

7 minutes ago, at3n said:

What can Chrome do to alter the transaction created and signed by the Nano?

Also there's a stand-alone app that doesn't use Chrome any more.

You know better than that. It is not Chrome that will do anything to you except for the standard data harvesting that the already do to you. Google does nothing for free. And IF they have finally come out with a standalone app, that is a great step towards better security. They should have done it in the first place. Fact still remains though, you can not use your 25 word seed to recover any wallet much less your XRP wallet without relying on Ledger as that seed only unlocks your wallets located in their servers. That is how the use one seed for many formats.

[at3n]

3 minutes ago, Xilobyte said:

You know better than that. It is not Chrome that will do anything to you except for the standard data harvesting that the already do to you. Google does nothing for free. And IF they have finally come out with a standalone app, that is a great step towards better security. They should have done it in the first place. Fact still remains though, you can not use your 25 word seed to recover any wallet much less your XRP wallet without relying on Ledger as that seed only unlocks your wallets located in their servers. That is how the use one seed for many formats.

True, if you're worried about google snooping on you, then you're absolutely right to be wary of Chrome, I guess they could be keeping track of your crypto balances, hadn't considered that perspective. They still can't steal your money or secret key that way though.

Regarding the recovery phrase, my understanding is it's not an algorithm unique to Ledger, you could restore to other devices supporting it. Do you have links to any sources supporting your claim that Ledger stores any secret data about your wallets on their servers? That's at complete odds with the point of a hardware wallet, and I would be very interested to read it.

[Xilobyte]

10 minutes ago, at3n said:

True, if you're worried about google snooping on you, then you're absolutely right to be wary of Chrome, I guess they could be keeping track of your crypto balances, hadn't considered that perspective. They still can't steal your money or secret key that way though.

Regarding the recovery phrase, my understanding is it's not an algorithm unique to Ledger, you could restore to other devices supporting it. Do you have links to any sources supporting your claim that Ledger stores any secret data about your wallets on their servers? That's at complete odds with the point of a hardware wallet, and I would be very interested to read it.

No. I do not have any links. I do do know that running a full kode certainly takes more than available on that usb stick. And you may be right about the multiple protocol but if ledger does not have your wallets then who does? We certainly do not. I am more concerned about hijack viruses on Chrome then I am about Chrome itself.

[at3n]

2 minutes ago, Xilobyte said:

No. I do not have any links. I do do know that running a full kode certainly takes more than available on that usb stick. And you may be right about the multiple protocol but if ledger does not have your wallets then who does? We certainly do not. I am more concerned about hijack viruses on Chrome then I am about Chrome itself.

All that the Nano needs to be able to recover from the recovery phrase is the secret key (or something that amounts to the same thing, I've read that it isn't actually the secret key). That's a very small amount of data, even if you've doing it for several wallets at the same time.

No one "has" your wallet, it's on the ledger like every other wallet, and the Nano holds the key. It (or the app) queries the current state of the ledger when you plug it in to the computer.

I have not looked in detail at the algorithm used for key recovery, but it's on my list of things to do.

If you're worried about malicious programs finding out publicly available details about your wallet (which is a valid concern, because then ransomware would know exactly how much to charge you), then you really need to separate your crypto computer from your other work, and keep your computer security in top shape. But that is a problem for any implementation of a crypto wallet, not just hardware. What hardware does do is protect against secret key theft and malicious transactions.

[ZX81_1k]

I found this as an FAQ on the Nano S ledger which answers my last remaining concern about how the wallets are recovered if Ledger, the company, goes out of business:

What if Ledger goes out of business?
If Ledger shuts down all its activities, the Ledger Chrome app will most probably stop to function as our API servers would be stopped. However, this would only be an inconvenience, as your bitcoins would stay completely safe. With your recovery sheet, and your 24 words, you can any time restore your balance to another BIP39 compatible wallet.

 

[Zockempire]

I am missing XRP in the lists of BIP39 compatible wallets:

https://www.ledgerwallet.com/support/bip39-standalone.html

Go to the selections of coins. Many coins, but no XRP.

 

 

[Guest]

On 12/18/2017 at 6:34 AM, Badger said:

I've always intended to hodl on a paper wallet but, even as a skilled IT worker, the technical logistics of doing this with sufficient spread of risk over multiple wallets for multiple coins, backup of each while not leaving a single, digital copy anywhere and, thereby, a possible point of exploitation has given me a serious headache. There must be a dozen possible exploits which would be repeated every time I attempted to sell any coins via an exchange as the wallet secret key would be exposed to the internet.

Solution.... Nano S. I never thought I'd want one or need one but thinking through the logistics of keeping coins secure from loss or theft it's become a no-brainer.

Is this the process everyone steps through before they get a hardware wallet?

FYI.. don't just discard paper wallets. There's 20 xrp reserved on each one. 

[ZX81_1k]

4 hours ago, LordVetinari said:

FYI.. don't just discard paper wallets. There's 20 xrp reserved on each one. 

That's true and I have kept them on the off chance that Ripple, one day, change the protocol so the minimum wallet balance is reduced. Otherwise there's no way to access those XRP, is there?

Edited January 9, 2018 by Badger
Typo