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Sukrim

Time to increase the owner reserve?

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mduo13 and joelkatz on this topic in a different thread (

 

On 20.1.2018 at 4:41 AM, mDuo13 said:

The discussion within Ripple has been inconclusive so far.

We are being very cautious about lowering the reserve for a couple reasons:

  • One of those is that, clearly, the current amount is still not deferring misuse (as Polo unfortunately exemplifies).
  • The other is that raising the reserve is a painful process, which is almost like taking money away from people. So we really don't want to lower it if we'd have to raise it again sometime soon. So we definitely cannot react to short-term price movements.

We have also been discussing some ways to possibly create accounts or account-like things that can be deleted, with whatever caveats. It's not guaranteed that we'll do any of these specifically or even any of them at all. But in the interest of transparency and collaboration, here are a couple thoughts that were tossed around:

  • XRP-only multi-signing "sub-accounts" that are tied to destination tags. The sub-account would have its own balance of XRP but would send transactions using the sequence number of the parent account.
  • New "deletable" flag on accounts (on by default for new accounts). Transactions from these accounts must specify a LastLedgerSequence within a certain range of the current ledger.
    • You still would only be able to delete an account if it owned no ledger objects.
  • "Light" accounts that can send and receive XRP but can't own objects in the ledger and can only send and receive "Payment" type transactions.  Light accounts have special Sequence numbers that start out equal to the current ledger index when the account gets created and can't go over a certain amount (always less than the current ledger index). So the account would take a while (say, 100 ledgers) to "mature" enough to send transactions and then it can't average more than 1 transaction per ledger version. If it ever runs out of XRP, it'd get deleted.
    • The sequence number thing gets around the transaction replay problem because if an account ever gets re-created, its new starting Sequence number will definitely be higher than any previous transaction it could've sent successfully.
    • Since they can't own anything in the ledger, the total space a "Light" account would occupy is less than what an offer occupies, so they're definitely less bad than offers (which already exist) in terms of letting people temporarily clog the ledger and then get their XRP back.

 

 

11 hours ago, JoelKatz said:

 

A light account is guaranteed not to have any owned objects and hence no owner directory. As a result, it can have a lower reserve. A regular account can't be completely deleted because other people might have created trust lines to it and because that's needed to protect against transaction replay. Light accounts can have any trust lines created to them and they use a different mechanism to prevent transaction replay.

 

 

Trust lines just increase the account's reserve by 5 XRP. They only charge the side that puts the line into a non-default state (unless both do). A gateway can easily have an owner count of zero because it doesn't have to put any trust lines into a non-default state! The 20 XRP base reserve covers things like the owner directory and costs associated with attaching offers. A light account can be promoted to a regular account at any time.

The idea of the light account proposal is to allow people to have their own accounts on the ledger and send and receive XRP without losing 20 XRP they can never get back.

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On 1/2/2018 at 6:02 PM, mDuo13 said:

@ahbritto has a spec (called "WorldDB") that scales the Ripple concept to everyone in the world. I haven't read it in a while and don't remember exactly how it works. It's different enough from the existing XRP Ledger that moving from one to the other would be non-trivial.

There are also some other interesting things the Ripple research team has experimented with, like sidechains/sub-ledgers for XRP, which could be linked to the production ledger via Interledger.

For the time being, Ripple is focused on improving liquidity, volume, and usability of the XRP Ledger while decentralizing the validators. Making rippled use fewer resources for the current usage pattern may be part of that. It's a tricky dance to gauge resource limits and move preemptively without wasting too much effort optimizing things that don't need optimizing.

Where can I read more about WorldDB?

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On 1/21/2018 at 10:35 AM, Coinseeker said:

Where can I read more about WorldDB?

Sadly, there's nothing published just yet on that. Arthur likes to keep his cards close at hand, so I don't think we'll be publishing anything substantial on the technical aspects of WorldDB until we're ready to move on it.

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3 hours ago, mDuo13 said:

Sadly, there's nothing published just yet on that. Arthur likes to keep his cards close at hand, so I don't think we'll be publishing anything substantial on the technical aspects of WorldDB until we're ready to move on it.

Fair enough.  Thanks.

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