Where does the lost Ripple go?

[ss6]

Hi All,

Extreme noob here.

I have accounts on 2 exchanges in India - btcxindia and koinex . As a test of transfer, I tried sending 10 XRPs from btcx to Koinex. The transaction was successful and I can see my transaction on xrpcharts.ripple.com . But I didn't get the 10 XRPs in my Koinex account.

Upon investigating, I found out that there is something called a 'destination tag' that I must've entered while initiating a transfer to Koinex account. Now, this bit of information was given in fine lines and very hard to find. Anyways, Koinex further mentions that - "If you send XRP tokens without mentioning your destination tag, your deposit will not be processed and Koinex will not be responsible for the loss of tokens in that case."

Now this makes me ask a few questions:

1. Where did my 10 XRPs go? 
2. Shouldn't exchanges be more open with notices like this? People (mostly noobs) can simply lose money just because they didn't make their UI/UX idiot proof.
3. Is it safe to share the transaction page at xrpcharts.ripple.com with anyone?
4. Is it safe to share your ripple address (rLdinLq5CJ******************) with anyone?

Thanks in advance.

Edited December 3, 2017 by ss6
Grammar

[RecentChange]

I think  Koinex should be able to trace them.

Except for your private key, sharing the other stuff should be ok.. as long you don't have like a shitload of coins on your ripple address.

 

[corak]

Exchanges that use destination tags for processing deposits, usually have one "hot wallet" on the XRP ledger that they use for deposits and withdrawals of all their clients. When you deposit XRP, the destination tag is encoded into the transaction that occurs on the XRP ledger. They issue the tags, so this is how they know which client account to credit with XRPs.

Without a destination tag there is no unique information in the transaction that can be used to prove that you were the one to send it (even in retrospect) and crypto-currency ledgers usually publicly show all transactions made, so in theory anybody can look for transactions without a tag coming into say Koinex and then claim that it's their XRP that was lost. Koinex would have no automatic way to tell if your claim is genuine. The only way is for them to seek definite proof that you made the withdrawal in the other exchange and that you control both accounts. I don't imagine they will make such efforts on your behalf unless maybe if you've lost an enormous sum. Please do not test it.

 

As for questions 3 and 4, yes to both questions. Addresses and transactions in the network are all publicly visible. 

Edited December 3, 2017 by corak

[Khaleesi]

3 minutes ago, ss6 said:

Hi All,

Extreme noob here.

I have accounts on 2 exchanges in India - btcxindia and koinex . As a test of transfer, I tried sending 10 XRPs from btcx to Koinex. The transaction was successful and I can see my transaction on xrpcharts.ripple.com . But I didn't get the 10 XRPs in my Koinex account.

Upon investigating, I found out that there is something called a 'destination tag' that I must've entered while initiating a transfer to Koinex account. Now, this bit of information was given in fine lines and very hard to find. Anyways, Koinex further mentions that - "If you send XRP tokens without mentioning your destination tag, your deposit will not be processed and Koinex will not be responsible for the loss of tokens in that case."

Now this makes me ask a few questions:

1. Where did my 10 XRPs go? 
2. Shouldn't exchanges be more open with notices like this? People (mostly noobs) can simply lose money just because they didn't make their UI?UX idiot proof.
3. Is it safe to share the transaction page at xrpcharts.ripple.com with anyone?
4. Is it safe to share your ripple address (rLdinLq5CJ******************)with anyone?

Thanks in advance.

Hello, 

1. The 10 xrp has gone to Koinex’s ‘group’ xrp wallet. Any exchange that requires an ID tag for your xrp wallet actually holds that xrp in a group wallet and your portion of that is identified by your unique ID tag. You should send a request for Koinex to help credit your xrp.

2. Unfortunately, experience comes with hindsight...always check all the site rules very carefully. Not noob proof at all.

3. It’s okay to share the transaction detail and 

4. It’s okay to share your public key address (just like you would if you wanted someone to send you xrp) just DON’T EVER share your private/secret key.

[ss6]

1 minute ago, corak said:

Exchanges that use destination tags for processing deposits, usually have one "hot wallet" on the XRP ledger that they use for deposits and withdrawals of all their clients. When you deposit XRP, the destination tag is encoded into the transaction that occurs on the XRP ledger. They issue the tags, so this is how they know which client account to credit with XRPs.

Without a destination tag there is no unique information in the transaction that can be used to prove that you were the one to send it (even in retrospect) and crypto-currency ledgers usually publicly show all transactions made, so in theory anybody can look for transactions without a tag coming into say Koinex and then claim that it's their XRP that was lost. Koinex would have no automatic way to tell if your claim is genuine. The only way is for them to seek definite proof that you made the withdrawal in the other exchange and that you control both accounts. I don't imagine they will make such efforts on your behalf unless maybe if you've lost an enormous sum. Please do not test it.

Makes much more sense now. I wasn't able to understand this in transaction page - "Balance increased by 10 from 8,912,077.490422 to 8,912,087.490422 XRP". This huge number of XRPs belong to the exchange and my destination tag is the only way for them to identify me. I thought I would be given a unique Ripple address. But instead Koinex has a unique address and just issues destination tags to users for all transactions.

[ss6]

4 minutes ago, Khaleesi said:

Hello, 

1. The 10 xrp has gone to Koinex’s ‘group’ xrp wallet. Any exchange that requires an ID tag for your xrp wallet actually holds that xrp in a group wallet and your portion of that is identified by your unique ID tag. You should send a request for Koinex to help credit your xrp.

2. Unfortunately, experience comes with hindsight...always check all the site rules very carefully. Not noob proof at all.

3. It’s okay to share the transaction detail and 

4. It’s okay to share your public key address (just like you would if you wanted someone to send you xrp) just DON’T EVER share your private/secret key.

Yes, Khaleesi. Understood the group wallet concept now. And have raised a ticket to Koinex for helping me out. Lets see what happens.

About private/secret key - what would this be and where to look for it? Is it my destination tag? 

[corak]

Each address in the XRP ledger has a corresponding secret key. With the key you are allowed to spend XRP (or any IOUs owned by the address).

On an exchange, generally, you are not given the key in the first place (it's like funds sitting in a bank, they hold it for you). They have the keys and with them they can make withdrawals of XRP when you tell them to.

If you have your own address on the ledger, you are responsible for keeping the key to that address secure. That's a whole topic in itself. Read on "paper wallets" and decide if you want to create one, just be very careful if you choose to operate on the ledger. Technical mistakes can cause you to lose all funds in an irreversible way.

[Khaleesi]

7 minutes ago, ss6 said:

Yes, Khaleesi. Understood the group wallet concept now. And have raised a ticket to Koinex for helping me out. Lets see what happens.

About private/secret key - what would this be and where to look for it? Is it my destination tag? 

It is not your destination tag...no

while you have your coins on an exchange, generally, the exchange holds your secret key and signs your withdrawal transactions for you...that’s one reason why it’s better to have your own individual wallet which will tell you your secret or private key. A secret can also be a string of words.

An individual wallet also does not have an ID tag

[ss6]

Ok, Corak. So correct me if I'm wrong.

In this case, since I don't actually have a Ripple address; I'm not going to have a secret key. But Koinex hasa Ripple address or as you said "address on the ledger" they definitely would have a secret key. Now, if I try to make get my own address, I would be responsible for secret key and all the safeguarding. (How to do that; I'll try to read it on the net. )

[ss6]

2 minutes ago, Khaleesi said:

that’s one reason why it’s better to have your own individual wallet which will tell you your secret or private key.

This would be because, an exchange can simply say they got hacked and lost your key and your funds are in the wild now. Is it?

Edited December 3, 2017 by ss6

[corak]

Yes, mostly. There are a few reputable ones, e.g. Bitstamp, which are very unlikely to be a scam. But the only way to keep XRPs 100% safe under your possession is to use a paper wallet. On the other hand, if you mess it up in any way, your funds are all gone.

 

[Trickery]

I have found the links and resources tab quite helpful for finding info on wallets but it is still a steep learning curve just to understand the whole concept.

[Khaleesi]

1 hour ago, ss6 said:

This would be because, an exchange can simply say they got hacked and lost your key and your funds are in the wild now. Is it?

Or they could just go under and you lose your assets

[Khaleesi]

51 minutes ago, corak said:

Yes, mostly. There are a few reputable ones, e.g. Bitstamp, which are very unlikely to be a scam. But the only way to keep XRPs 100% safe under your possession is to use a paper wallet. On the other hand, if you mess it up in any way, your funds are all gone.

 

Or if you have enough to care about, invest in a ledger nano S or ledger blue

[ss6]

Yes, I've read a lot about wallets and have zeroed in on Nano S. I'll be placing the order soon.