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Tracking Cuallix


tulo
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Hi all, I'm curious to see the XRP movements of the recently announced Cuallix which should use XRP with xRapid.

But there are not so many info around, so I opened this topic to gather ideas, info about real XRP movements.

There is not so much documentation about xRapid, so my guessing is that it is used within the "private" ILP deployment, so that an account using XRP liquidity has to create escrow transactions. But I'm not sure about the tools to track escrow payments.

I'll update this post as soon as I find new info and I hope some Ripple's investigators will pop up too :)

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3 hours ago, tulo said:

Hi all, I'm curious to see the XRP movements of the recently announced Cuallix which should use XRP with xRapid.

But there are not so many info around, so I opened this topic to gather ideas, info about real XRP movements.

There is not so much documentation about xRapid, so my guessing is that it is used within the "private" ILP deployment, so that an account using XRP liquidity has to create escrow transactions. But I'm not sure about the tools to track escrow payments.

I'll update this post as soon as I find new info and I hope some Ripple's investigators will pop up too :)

Guess it should be difficult, or even not possible, to track Cuallix transfers and payments, but one can expect substantial more liquidity on the corridors they will target (USD/XRP and MXN/XRP I believe)

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Miguel said they used USD/MXN via Bitso. So it appears the payment path is bank - ILP - crypto exchange - FIAT/XRP - XRP (pre-deployed pool of xrp reserved for taking liquidity; rebalanced when needed between exchanges or private MM addresses) and vice versa. 

So far it hadn't result into unusual depth or tight spread on the involved exchanges. So if you could track order book depth, best bit/ask size and compare it with executed orders over time, you could - probably -  notice some patterns. 

But you won't have a way to distinguish those orders from the orders made by usual traders. 

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imo, if they use ILP, you will not see anything in the order books. You will only see XRP sent from account A (market maker USD/XRP) to account B (market maker XRP/MXN). If it is coupled to their exchanges (which do not have to be on the RippleLedger) then you will only see orders taken from the order book by a mysterious party X (actually sort of ' settlement'  in the order book by one of the market makers).

Edited by jn_r
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1 hour ago, jn_r said:

You will only see XRP sent from account A (market maker USD/XRP) to account B (market maker XRP/MXN).

They are likely to use prefunded accounts on both exchanges to eliminate the 3.5+ seconds volatility exposure. So the transfers are less frequent. 

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Let's do a specific example..maybe @JoelKatz or @nikb can help:

Payment provider A wants to convert a USD payment from US customer B into MXN, to credit Mexican customer C. There is a US exchange D (with a XRP/USD pair) and Mexican exchange E (with a XRP/MXN pair), and a market maker F.

- what would be the steps, typically?

- in which way would the speed of the payment be affected as exchanges have (sometimes lenghty) deposit/withdrawal processes?

- for customers using xCurrent, would the pathfinding algorithm take exchange quotes into account? Or would it 'just' compare various market makers (that might use exchanges in the background)?

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6 hours ago, zerpian said:

I agree with @kanaas and @TplusZero

This is also interesting to track:

https://www.theworldexchange.net/?symbol1=MXN.rG6FZ31hDHN1K5Dkbma3PSB5uVCuVVRzfn&symbol2=USD.rvYAfWj5gh67oV6fW32ZzP3Aw4Eubs59B

You get better rates, so volume will pick up somehow. And also this:

 

The figures here look bizarre to me. Why would going CNY->AUD be so different in cost to AUD->CNY, wouldn't liquidity be similar on both sides of the book? Looks like that pattern is repeated throughout the chart.

And does this chart really say that USD->EUR would be 3.88% cheaper if going through XRP than traditional FX?

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47 minutes ago, elias said:

Why would going CNY->AUD be so different in cost to AUD->CNY, wouldn't liquidity be similar on both sides of the book? Looks like that pattern is repeated throughout the chart.

i had the same questions – i think because for whatever reason(s) sometimes it's harder one way than the other e.g. legal, regulatory, or just supply/demand

as an example/analogy, sometimes it's really hard for US citizens to acquire Euro based stocks/shares, but it's certainly fairly easy vice versa

48 minutes ago, elias said:

And does this chart really say that USD->EUR would be 3.88% cheaper if going through XRP than traditional FX?

again, i had the same doubts, but thinking about it since, i believe it's because it's not just the above (legal, regulatory, security/capital controls, etc) but the rates likely include things like middle man fees, exchange fees, charges for accounts/delays etc, all issues that xrp seeks to solve

good example being china, because they have strict capital controls, whereas australia are pretty friendly to foreign currency etc

could be wrong on that, and i expect the supposed xrp rate is a "best case" scenario which also makes the numbers seem better

another factor to consider is that these may be averages for various amounts... it might be cheaper to send certain size payments by xrp (e.g. low-value, high-volume) assuming proper liquidity etc, but not other size payments e.g. high-value, single chunk payments

again, might be wrong -- but either way these figures if even close to reality are very, very promising indeed for the future of digital assets like xrp

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5 hours ago, jn_r said:

imo, if they use ILP, you will not see anything in the order books. You will only see XRP sent from account A (market maker USD/XRP) to account B (market maker XRP/MXN). If it is coupled to their exchanges (which do not have to be on the RippleLedger) then you will only see orders taken from the order book by a mysterious party X (actually sort of ' settlement'  in the order book by one of the market makers).

It sounds like Ripplenet (xCurrent/ILP) may not actually add exchange volume to the books on the XRP ledger, but only increase the payment volume.

So would a market maker wanting to provide liquidity through XRP to payment providers etc. require a copy of xCurrent/xRapid and their own xTicker or whatever? I wonder how much they  cost .. could anyone declare themselves a market maker add buy them?

 

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2 hours ago, elias said:

The figures here look bizarre to me. Why would going CNY->AUD be so different in cost to AUD->CNY, wouldn't liquidity be similar on both sides of the book? Looks like that pattern is repeated throughout the chart.

It should be a result of the, usually, one sided remittance flows in a given corridor. Look into this write up i did some time ago.. XRP tends to be in strong demand for the sender country (with corresponding XRP selling pressure for the receiving country/ XRP pair). 

 

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Imagine XRP being the new main bridge currency between exchanges, I hate losing like 5$ and waiting 1+ hours by exchanging bitcoin to different exchanges 

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7 hours ago, elias said:

It sounds like Ripplenet (xCurrent/ILP) may not actually add exchange volume to the books on the XRP ledger, but only increase the payment volume.

So would a market maker wanting to provide liquidity through XRP to payment providers etc. require a copy of xCurrent/xRapid and their own xTicker or whatever? I wonder how much they  cost .. could anyone declare themselves a market maker add buy them?

 

xCurrent doesn't use the XRPLedger directly. It can use it indirectly if it accepts quotes from an xRapid. The market maker uses xRapid to provide the quotes.

In making the quotes, the market maker (in this case an exchange) makes use of it's  own orderbooks. So for example Bitso has an orderbook (not on XRP Ledger) where XRP is traded against MXN. On basis of the current situation in the orderbooks it can decide to make a quote via xRapid. This quote is then picked up by xCurrent from a bank and if the quote is taken, then the ILP transaction will take place - via the XRP Ledger.

Then, the market maker will have to make the correct transactions in his own orderbook to reflect the ILP transaction that just took place. So there is a risc for the market maker (order book might have changed meanwhile) and it is up to him how he wants to handle this risc.

This is how I think it works, but I am eagerly waiting for more info on xRapid 

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