Why did Jed McCaleb leave Ripple to start Stellar

[Guest]

@JTxrPP

Naa... you are not looking at the real picture. Music industry has exploded, the film industry in the process. Look at BAT (Basic Attention Token) and you will see that the middle men - like Google are going away. There is little that the centralized services can do to stop it, precisely because the artist and consumer benefits. 

BitTorrent is a protocol not a music download service. 

Look at the dark web... dark because it is pseudo anonymous. IPFS can give everyone a secure connection with secure content. 

I think you see today, through today's lens.

Install IPFS/Go and you see a different future.

[JTxrPP]

oh @Max Entropy, where do I even begin?

Quote

Naa... you are not looking at the real picture. Music industry has exploded, the film industry in the process. Look at BAT (Basic Attention Token) and you will see that the middle men - like Google are going away. There is little that the centralized services can do to stop it, precisely because the artist and consumer benefits.

Naah..i'm just not looking at your picture anymore because I don't agree. careful not to confuse what you personally believe 'should' be or 'could' be or want to be, with actual reality.

Quote

BitTorrent is a protocol not a music download service.

You feel like calling it a 'protocol'? Cool. I'll stick with Potato because despite whatever label we decide on, it's not going to change what it really is, is it? Now what is the use case of this 'Protato'?

Quote

I think you see today, through today's lens.

Oh Maximus, this is a awfully huge assumption even for you Mr. Entropy. So you must see the future then? Tell me, how does my XRP investment look in 10 years?

 

P.S. COVFEFE

[kanaas]

20 hours ago, Max Entropy said:

@kanaas - Hi...

i know SMTP etc. rather well and I can assure you it is going to be replaced. DNS is going to be replaced.

 

It was not my point this protocols being used forever. The point was that while everybody feels some services as peer to peer experiences, they technologically may not be. There often are central services in the background, serving for security, assurance, convenience, whatever.... Same with banks. Like it or not, but they DO add services. Take them away and you will fall back on individual and full responsibility taking care of your funds and savings. Some may be capable for that, but most will be glad to have banks as guards.... Banks will transform, but they will not go away.

[kanaas]

21 hours ago, Max Entropy said:

Hi @kuyu

Well, in general I could have agreed with you awhile back... before I 'woke up'. But after 9/11, I have come to realize that the system wholly corrupt or corrupted. No one is accountable. Everyone has been co-opted. Lastly, the decent people just want to keep their jobs. No one will object to corruption. Worse, centralization can be achieved by simply hiring UN-employed people, and they, then, will do what they are told to - because they will not want to lose their jobs.

There is a famous painter who has the four (4) seasons of countries. Spring, summer, fall, and winter... we are approaching winter. 

Cleanup is now necessary. What comes out the other side will be very different. I was surprised when Steve Wozinak moved to New Zealand, then I was surprised to see the number of people renouncing US citizenship and leaving. 

It may be the case, that the NSA just grinds the US into pulp. I do not really understand what drives this process. But you can see with IPFS and crypto in general that there is a concerted response to centralization. I expect that there will be no early winner and that there will be protracted struggle for a new economy. Decentralization will win, but the old still and Ripple like systems will cling for some time. I see Ripple as proprietary system that is like MS Exchange... it will become adopted by the establishment groups... and necessarily integrated with the Internet's Bitcoin layers. Ripple is not going to be the innovator that I once thought possible. Only open systems can generate enough random mutations to succeed. Ripple dos not enable this. I attribute this again, directly, back to the disastrous leadership of Larson. 

I agree with the requirement for risk... as this will drive mutations in the system. But I think you will agree that entrepreneurs will be attracted to open systems, and not Ripple's proprietary products. I have started a new vector on Ripple's proprietary software (ie not open source). There are whole bunch of issues here. The largest for me is that vetting the code will never happen. Vetting means validating and testing the semantics. Ripple has always been isolated and had only its own developers. 

--

I can see that you a reasoned person, but not yet accepting that they system is wholly corrupt. Nice chatting.

:-)

--

I guess lastly, the reason the consulting group see the 3rd world as the emergent value of the future, is that the first world has been milked dry. 

I am not sure about the 3rd world. Boldly, I think that there is reasoned difference between how cultures think, develop and maintain stuff. Example, German and Japanese automobiles. The US and say, UK can not compete in quality. Canada, Australia, etc can not compete for other reasons. Russia and China can not compete for different reasons. There is something true but different with software, where the US or California can currently dominate, while Germany and Japan contribute not much. The mindsets in these cultures are very different.

The mindset in the 3rd world is in a different dimension entirely. Maybe they must go through a 100 years of industrialization to catch up. And differently, if oil is replaced with solar then the Middle East does what? You may know about 'abiotic' theory of oil. I first read about it in Russian science. I think they are right. The idea that dinosaurs and plant life could have been rotting miles under the earth's crust is now for me, preposterous. The Middle East is entirely dependent on the model that oil is running out. 

 

 

From all blockchains, including Bitcoin, Ripple(d) is closest and moving fastest to real and practical decentralisation. That's a fact. If that's good in direct serving all and everything... has to be seen. Maybe for some services it might be, but for most I'm sure it's much better to have a (banking)layer going over it. With governance. Actually it's pretty much the same as the internet.... it's completely decentralised but we all use centralised services to communicate by those www rails. Even our identities are stored centralised. Not saying some of those cannot become cut off from centralisation but I DO know this will NOT happen with finance as a whole. There will always come that much needed regulation around the corner. Otherwise it would be a jungle with countless silk roads. And that's not what our governance and neither most of us want.... I guess.

[XRPage]

1 minute ago, kanaas said:

From all blockchains, including Bitcoin, Ripple(d) is closest and moving fastest to real and practical decentralisation. That's a fact. If that's good in direct serving all and everything... has to be seen. Maybe for some services it might be, but for most I'm sure it's much better to have a (banking)layer going over it. With governance. Actually it's pretty much the same as the internet.... it's completely decentralised but we all use centralised services to communicate by those www rails. Even our identities are stored centralised. Not saying some of those cannot become cut off from centralisation but I DO know this will NOT happen with finance as a whole. There will always come that much needed regulation around the corner. Otherwise it would be a jungle with countless silk roads. And that's not what our governance and neither most of us want.... I guess.

I stopped reading after first sentence...

[kanaas]

Just now, AlvaroXRP said:

I stopped reading after first sentence...

No problem...

[Trisky]

Sooooo....

Why again did Jed leave Stellar?

[invest2lose]

30 minutes ago, Ripplezzzz said:

Sooooo....

Why again did Jed leave Stellar?

maybe chris touched jed inappropriately.

Edited November 2, 2017 by invest2lose

[tomb]

Joyce was wearing his pants.

[kuyu]

On 11/1/2017 at 8:42 PM, Max Entropy said:

Hi @kuyu

Well, in general I could have agreed with you awhile back... before I 'woke up'. But after 9/11, I have come to realize that the system wholly corrupt or corrupted. No one is accountable. Everyone has been co-opted. Lastly, the decent people just want to keep their jobs. No one will object to corruption. Worse, centralization can be achieved by simply hiring UN-employed people, and they, then, will do what they are told to - because they will not want to lose their jobs.

There is a famous painter who has the four (4) seasons of countries. Spring, summer, fall, and winter... we are approaching winter. 

Cleanup is now necessary. What comes out the other side will be very different. I was surprised when Steve Wozinak moved to New Zealand, then I was surprised to see the number of people renouncing US citizenship and leaving. 

It may be the case, that the NSA just grinds the US into pulp. I do not really understand what drives this process. But you can see with IPFS and crypto in general that there is a concerted response to centralization. I expect that there will be no early winner and that there will be protracted struggle for a new economy. Decentralization will win, but the old still and Ripple like systems will cling for some time. I see Ripple as proprietary system that is like MS Exchange... it will become adopted by the establishment groups... and necessarily integrated with the Internet's Bitcoin layers. Ripple is not going to be the innovator that I once thought possible. Only open systems can generate enough random mutations to succeed. Ripple dos not enable this. I attribute this again, directly, back to the disastrous leadership of Larson. 

I agree with the requirement for risk... as this will drive mutations in the system. But I think you will agree that entrepreneurs will be attracted to open systems, and not Ripple's proprietary products. I have started a new vector on Ripple's proprietary software (ie not open source). There are whole bunch of issues here. The largest for me is that vetting the code will never happen. Vetting means validating and testing the semantics. Ripple has always been isolated and had only its own developers. 

--

I can see that you a reasoned person, but not yet accepting that they system is wholly corrupt. Nice chatting.

:-)

--

I guess lastly, the reason the consulting group see the 3rd world as the emergent value of the future, is that the first world has been milked dry. 

I am not sure about the 3rd world. Boldly, I think that there is reasoned difference between how cultures think, develop and maintain stuff. Example, German and Japanese automobiles. The US and say, UK can not compete in quality. Canada, Australia, etc can not compete for other reasons. Russia and China can not compete for different reasons. There is something true but different with software, where the US or California can currently dominate, while Germany and Japan contribute not much. The mindsets in these cultures are very different.

The mindset in the 3rd world is in a different dimension entirely. Maybe they must go through a 100 years of industrialization to catch up. And differently, if oil is replaced with solar then the Middle East does what? You may know about 'abiotic' theory of oil. I first read about it in Russian science. I think they are right. The idea that dinosaurs and plant life could have been rotting miles under the earth's crust is now for me, preposterous. The Middle East is entirely dependent on the model that oil is running out. 

 

 

Hi @Max Entropy . I am sorry, I wanted to write a much larger piece but a number of other things get in my way. To some extent, our discussion turns philosophical, so it already anyway going above and beyond the subject at hand. I will say for my side that yes, I do believe that the world and particularly institutions are either corrupt or not corrupt. In any case the institutions are artificial and it is the people that populate them which really make the difference. Their ideas, ideals, beliefs, fears and dreams. 

So in a way yeah I do still believe. I have seen the bright side myself, although I have also seen or been close to the bleak side. Which let me tell you, is quite bleak. As for whether something is festering in the core of government administration (everywhere), yes it does. But the same thing festers in many other places as well. 

Nice chatting   

[Trickery]

Is this forum decentralised and P2P? No it has moderators and rules.

[Guest]

17 minutes ago, Trickery said:

No it has moderators and rules.

Can one of those rules be:

Just highlight the important bits and quote them...   not the whole post.       

[SaladFingers]

On 11/2/2017 at 7:51 AM, Max Entropy said:

Music industry has exploded

The music industry may have exploded in the sense that it is now accessible to everyone, but financially it is on its knees. We are now living in a time where well known independent musicians struggle to make ends meet and major pop artists make a loss on single/album releases in order to promote and make their living from endorsments (fashion labels/perfume etc).

[Guest]

Hi @SaladFingers

I agree fully. But the advertizing model is broken. I am somewhat optimistic that it can be fixed with BAT (Basic Attention Token) The Brave browser supports an early version of a Bitcoin and BAT wallet. The developers are real. Their funding is real and they are in SF. Same people who do FireFox, so I am optimistic. It could be that BAT is integrated into browsers in general.

The previous music and I guess film model was that a few bands got lucky and rest did not.

Reference:

Brave Browser

https://brave.org

https://basicattentiontoken.org

i run Brave on all machines and operating systems. The iOS version a bit funky, but it will fixed.

[SaladFingers]

38 minutes ago, Max Entropy said:

Hi @SaladFingers

I agree fully. But the advertizing model is broken. I am somewhat optimistic that it can be fixed with BAT (Basic Attention Token) The Brave browser supports an early version of a Bitcoin and BAT wallet. The developers are real. Their funding is real and they are in SF. Same people who do FireFox, so I am optimistic. It could be that BAT is integrated into browsers in general.

The previous music and I guess film model was that a few bands got lucky and rest did not.

Reference:

Brave Browser

https://brave.org

https://basicattentiontoken.org

i run Brave on all machines and operating systems. The iOS version a bit funky, but it will fixed.

Thanks for sharing, BAT sounds like an interesting project, I checked out the website and will definitely read up some more.
You are right about the previous music model, however the not quite as lucky ones still used to be able to earn a nice income on the side when music was a commodity that people didn't expect for free, the industry changed so fast that musicians didn't adapt quickly enough (and still haven't) but the business minded people did, and a lot of the revenue now falls into the hands of everyone except the musicians, mainly ISPs as people pay for more data allowance so they can get more 'free' music.