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Did Stellar just become real competition?

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Just now, thetamind said:

 Banco Bilbao Vizcaya Argentaria, Bank Danamon Indonesia, Bank Mandiri, Bank Negara Indonesia, Bank Permata, Bank Rakyat Indonesia, Kasikornbank Thailand, Mizuho Financial Group, National Australia Bank, Rizal Commercial Banking Corp. (RCBC) Philippines, Sumitomo Mitsui Financial Group, TD Bank, Wizdraw (HK) of WorldCom Finance, and other financial institutions.

Thanks, citation or link?

Edited by cmbartley

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12 minutes ago, Ikhazu said:

 

This was a post from another thread just below called "IBM - Ripple Technology" By Max Entropy

Regardless of who IBM is, Stellar has a temporary contract with IBM for a year while IBM makes a start on their own development, my mindset between Ripple and Stellar has been from the start = Stellar for those who want the cheaper alternative, and Ripple for those who can actually afford it. Whether that's true or not.

 

 

 

 

11 minutes ago, Amigo said:

6. The audience at Sibos is now informed by a third party that you really need a (bridge) asset as well on top of / next to just a blockchain alone to settle international payments

7. FIs will make the link that there was a party already stating the need for a bridge asset for a long time and has applied their whole business model on that (Ripple) including their long term strategy, partnerships, offices in specific corridors, decentralized validators, cryptographic lockup of 50b xrp,  etc.

8.  Investors like SBI will be urged to adopt Ripple even faster (if not already) to stay ahead in the game

9.  The lads at Ripple will be kept sharp as well (if needed already) and they embrace competition, actually even facilitate it with ILP

10. Banks will do research and soon realize that Stellars founder has a really bad name considering trustworthyness and was (and probably still is) anti banks, and are going to think twice getting their capital exposed to his powers, along with attaching their name to his.

 

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4 minutes ago, XRP200 said:

Maybe IBM wants more control and since Stellar is small it gives them this, but in the end it is just one client. Also, from the Fortune and IBM articles, it sounds like the use of Stellar is to provide initial liquidity and then they’ll move to other digital currencies. 

“According to Lund, though, the banks use of Stellar’s digital currency is likely to be temporary. He predicts that, in the next year, central banks will begin issuing digital currencies of their own, and that these will become an integral part of blockchain-based money transfers.”

http://fortune.com/2017/10/16/ibm-blockchain-stellar/

 

“Initially, Stellar will provide the network and digital asset to facilitate the settlement of transactions cleared on Hyperledger.”

http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/53290.wss

 

Yes but doesn't this return to the same argument people make about XRP, that banks don't have to use it? Same argument you made could be made against XRP. Banks will just use their software.

XRP's real use comes with remittance payments and eliminates counterparty risk. Wouldn't SWIFT and hyperledger/IBM be able to do the same things with XLM, get the banks on board initially trying it and then when they become more comfortable they expand the use

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5 minutes ago, Amigo said:

10. Banks will do research and soon realize that Stellars founder has a really bad name considering trustworthyness and was (and probably still is) anti banks, and are going to think twice getting their capital exposed to his powers, along with attaching their name to his.

Do you really believe that? If SWIFT and IBM come to the banks backing Stellar and are telling them that its a good solution and the majority of banks would say no and go with the new guy(Ripple) who is unestablished?

Like i said before, I still really like XRP, Im a big hodler but I see this as a serious move by the competition and dont think it should be brushed off so easily

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Guest

I have posted this on other threads.  SWIFT is not Ripple's true competitor.  CLS Group is.  Currently, below is how the market works.

  • SWIFT (aka corresponding banking system) sends its transactions to CLS Group. 
  • CLS Group aggregates them and then executes FX swaps. 

The CLS Group accounts for 50% of the market ($5-10 trillion daily).

The CLS group is similar to SWIFT.  ~60 banks own and control CLS group.  These same ~60 banks are part of SWIFT.  CLS Group has been developing CLSNet.  Below is a description.

Quote

The development of CLSNet, our new distributed ledger technology-enabled bilateral netting service, is on track for delivery in 2018. We are currently in the build phase of the project and are working with IBM to ensure the Hyperledger Fabric, the platform for the distributed ledger and an industry accepted, open source solution, meets the requirements necessary for delivering a resilient, secure and scalable service. We will employ a phased approach to implement CLSNet, and offer participants the option of connecting directly to a permissioned distributed ledger, governed by CLS, or submitting payments over existing SWIFT based channels.

In April 2017 we announced an expansion in currency scope for CLSNet. When the new service launches in early 2018, it will now support more than 140 currencies. This significant development is in direct response to market demand and making the service ‘currency agnostic’ in this way will expand the value of the service...

https://www.cls-group.com/about-us/interim-financial-report-2017/ceo-report/

Sound familiar?  It should.  They have taken a play directly out of Ripple's book (i.e., build a blockchain that works by itself or with SWIFT and is currency agnostic) and will be discussing it at SIBOS. 

Quote

Today, that future will be discussed in greater detail on stage at Sibos in Toronto, where a panel with representatives from IBM, TD Bank and CLS will discuss the project with the CEOs of both Stellar and KlickEx.

https://www.coindesk.com/ibms-stellar-move-tech-giant-use-lumen-cryptocurrency-payments-rail/

In my mind, CLS is definitely legitimate competition.

The CLS group is not SWIFT.  They are much leaner (less than 400 employees).  I discovered them as part of my due diligence when investing in XRP for the first time a couple of months back.  And I wondered what their response to Ripple would be (now I know).

With all of that said, this is not a zero sum game.  There is room for multiple players.

Edited by Guest

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4 minutes ago, bachmanity said:

Yes but doesn't this return to the same argument people make about XRP, that banks don't have to use it? Same argument you made could be made against XRP. Banks will just use their software.

XRP's real use comes with remittance payments and eliminates counterparty risk. Wouldn't SWIFT and hyperledger/IBM be able to do the same things with XLM, get the banks on board initially trying it and then when they become more comfortable they expand the use

No, I’m not arguing that at all. All I’m doing is looking at the articles and pointing out what IBM is saying. This is probably an initial and temporary use until central banks issue their own digital currencies. 

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Guest

You have got to hand it to Ripple's competitors.  They sure know how to time things! 

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7 minutes ago, bachmanity said:

Yes but doesn't this return to the same argument people make about XRP, that banks don't have to use it? Same argument you made could be made against XRP. Banks will just use their software.

XRP's real use comes with remittance payments and eliminates counterparty risk. Wouldn't SWIFT and hyperledger/IBM be able to do the same things with XLM, get the banks on board initially trying it and then when they become more comfortable they expand the use

Well, that's the thing.   If the banks use crypto versions of their fiat money.  Then they have all the same problems they have now as far a nostro accounts ect.  They have to use a 3rd party that they can all access and trust.   

I think we are going to see a mass migration of funds into stellar unless ripple makes an announcement of live trading during swell.   These 3rd party currencies are needed and if IBM is backing stellar then people could reasonably think that its market cap should be similar to XRP's and that puts it at around .50 USD because it has half the coins.  Just that alone is massive competition and reason to be worried about XRP's price. 

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1 minute ago, Sebastian said:

I had intended on posting this after SWELL, but the cat is out of the bag (unfortunately, not Brad's cat).  Below is how their current solution works.  However, it still takes a full business day.  If they want to keep up with Ripple with CLSNet, they need a digital asset.

https://www.cls-group.com/products/settlement/clssettlement/

And now they have a 1 year trial with the potential missing piece

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47 minutes ago, Takk said:

I thought this price jump in STR was the normal, "Hey we used to be related to XRP so we're worth something too."  pump and dump routine that happens whenever there's good news for XRP.   When it just kept going up I started googling and still nothing.  Then I switched to the past 24 hours and find that IBM just partnered with Stellar to use not their software but their token for cross boarder payments throughout the pacific region.  They are supposedly going to handle 60% of the money transfers in 7 countries.  WTF?   Why did they pick Stellar and how big of a blow is this for XRP?

https://www.coindesk.com/ibms-stellar-move-tech-giant-use-lumen-cryptocurrency-payments-rail/

I don't understand how or why this happened.  

Ok, you guys really need to CHILL THE **** OUT. Question: When you decide to go shopping for anything....car, house, clothes...do you go and buy the very first one you see. Chances are, you don't. Just because WE feel as though Ripple is the premier choice for cross-boarder payments doesn't mean that they are the only one's working the field. Like @Dennis stated, it is a TRIAL. If I were IBM I would also do my due diligence vetting all possibilities before making a choice. WOOSAH peeps, WOOSAH......

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Just now, bachmanity said:

And now they have a 1 year trial with the potential missing piece

And ripple has a working enterprise product right now

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21 minutes ago, bachmanity said:

Do you really believe that? If SWIFT and IBM come to the banks backing Stellar and are telling them that its a good solution and the majority of banks would say no and go with the new guy(Ripple) who is unestablished?

Like i said before, I still really like XRP, Im a big hodler but I see this as a serious move by the competition and dont think it should be brushed off so easily

I think they will demand a lockup, more decentralisation, background checks of people and technology, etc etc  and yes, I think it is going to be an issue. The stakes are quite high with billions on the wire. The same accounts for 'the new guy' Ripple indeed and is part of the reason why it's taking longer than most people are screaming for. Luckily Ripple has been superfocussed for quite some time now and has hired some good names for this. 

To be clear, I do think IBM is competition and should be taken seriously. But such competition is good, and also that banks have a choice. And I think Ripple will be the choice of many banks in the end. 

Edited by Amigo

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