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Sancho

XRP vs XLM - why can they co-exist?

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I know a bit about XLM, and how it is similar to XRP, even build upon the same rails. Also know about McCaleb. 

But what is the general thuoght about XLM and Stellar here? On one side you would expect that as it is so similar to XRP a lot of credibility would be attributed to it. Also the market approach is fundamentaly different as Stellar is a non-profit organisation.

Please let me know your thoughts on this.

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Thanks, at least you informed about how you see it.

But leaving behind the 'gut feeling' side of it, and looking at the simple facts, like technology wise and where its headed in form of use case it does still seem to make sense. If you check out the intentions for use cases it seems they are aiming at several other possibilities Ripple is for now leaving aside because of its institutional banking focus. So if the common underlying technology is the best within blockchain/crypto, why could Stellar not succeed?

I really would appreciate some open minded thoughts on this as I have not found any grounded information. And if we as XRP hodlers believe in Ripple and XRP, what exact reasons would there be in place for discarding the most similar solution that is (for now) not aiming to compete but just use the same tech in other directions?

So the ultimate question here could also be if it is interesting to buy a bunch of Lumens for hodling 5+ years as price is still very low. Isn't it reasonable to say that if XRP will swell in to high highs in the future, there is a good chance of Lumens doing the same as in a 'little syster' kind of way?

      

Edited by Sancho

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Thanks RJD ?

Naturally you are right and I keep adding XRP structurally. 

But price of XLM is where XRP was long ago. So that is why I would like information on its fundamentals. 

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5 minutes ago, ThomasTheTGV said:

@Sancho It surprises me that your research didn't unveil any reasons at all why people aren't very keen to react on this topic?  How much did you found about origins of Ripple and Stellar? What did you find about Jed Mccaleb?

I'll help you along a bit:

https://www.coindesk.com/ripple-jed-mccaleb-settle-suit-over-1-million-in-disputed-funds/

 

Hi ThomasTheTGV, thanks for this information! I indeed did not read this specific article. It gives some more insight in what exactly happend between Ripple and McCaleb and therfore I can understand the animosity against McCaleb and Stellar by, let's say, XRP purists. But if we just look at Stellar and Lumen; Stellar org. seems to have a lot of competent people on board and is also developing real-use cases for its asset what sets it apart from most of the other crypto and puts it in the more 'future proof' corner together with only a few others like XRP.

So although I very much understand that it is looked upon with frowned faces (as an XRP hodler I also did that when I first read about its background) I now try to separate that initial feeling with just the objective side in what its future could be in 5 to 10 years. It being a rather large organization (compared with most cryptos) and continuing its expansion with more minds coming on board there, takes away the weight of MacCaleb being in there, at least IMHO. And on the other side, MacCaleb was one of the founders of Ripple which means although he has a lot of negative facts on his side he does seem to be a factor at the inception of some good initiatives. 

This bring me to the situation that being a XRP hodler and really believing in the solution and its future (and therefore its spectacular future rise in value) I am also interested in what Lumen could accomplish in the future. And mostly because of its similarity with XRP, so not seeing that as a reason to dislike it but as a reason why it could be one of the future crypto survivors.    

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On 9-10-2017 at 12:27 PM, Sancho said:

looking at the simple facts, like technology wise and where its headed in form of use case

Well when Jed left Ripple and started to build, euh... fork Stellar... at that time Ripple wasn't even ready for production. The years after a lot has changed, added, adjusted and developed. Not only on the core but also on the vision and adapting to real world readiness. Just think Interledger and (if you understand it) you'll know what I mean. Today we can say that Ripple has come to maturity.... Wonder how about Stellar growing up alone after the fork....

Also to my understanding the dev team, the procedures, the management, the sales, the marketing... all those are way better organised by Ripple compared to Stellar. 
As a result Ripple never had one single issue, while Stellar once had a major problem that resulted in an unexpected fork with nodes running out of sync. Do we have to mention the awful problematic Stellar distribution? Or the "make good" but rather unfair giveaway for BTC and XRP holders? And than the idiotic accusation of Ripple being vulnerable to fork by attack (while they have been proven to be less stable developers themselves, resulting in that real fork)

And than looking over Jed"s "career"..... eDonkey: problems with legality, gone bust.... MtGox: problems with partner and legality and a cowardly runaway just in time before disaster.... Ripple: argue and fight on direction of company, runaway with one single goal: fight Ripple to death by a fork and by a childish illegal dump of a huge stake of XRP by not following the contract, with even taking an aunt and a couisin into his mess and court... 

Any idea where Stellar/Lumen might end? I do ....

Edited by kanaas

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1 minute ago, kanaas said:

As a result Ripple never had one single issue, while Stellar once had a major problem that resulted in an unexpected fork with nodes running out of sync. Do we have to mention the awful problematic Stellar distribution? Or the "make good" but rather unfair giveaway for BTC and XRP holders? And than the idiotic accusation of Ripple being vulnerable to fork by attack (while they have been proven to be less stable developers themselves, resulting in that real fork)

And than looking over Jed"s "career"..... eDonkey: problems with legality, gone bust.... MtGox: problems with partner and legality and a cowardly runaway just in time before disaster.... Ripple: argue and fight on direction of company, runaway with one single goal: fight Ripple to death by a fork and by a childish illegal dump of a huge stake of XRP by not following the contract, with even taking an aunt into his mess and court...

and yet people seemed "happy" with the court case outcome with jed getting to keep an absolutely disgusting amount of xrp sold for him by ripple so he doesnt even lift a finger -- i still can't understand why he wasn't taken to court over damages and copyright infringement and libel 

utter madness

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10 minutes ago, zerpdigger said:

and yet people seemed "happy" with the court case outcome with jed getting to keep an absolutely disgusting amount of xrp sold for him by ripple so he doesnt even lift a finger -- i still can't understand why he wasn't taken to court over damages and copyright infringement and libel 

utter madness

I doubt people to be "happy", but at least the issue is settled. Copyright is difficult to claim on open source code and damages hard to prove... so all in all I think it was a good deal from Ripple side. Most of all because the value of XRP being protected by the lock up and Jed's XRP stack under legal control.

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21 minutes ago, kanaas said:

Well when Jed left Ripple and started to build, euh... fork Stellar... at that time Ripple wasn't even ready for production. The years after a lot has changed, added, adjusted and developed. Not only on the core but also on the vision and adapting to real world readiness. Just think Interledger and (if you understand it) you'll know what I mean. Today we can say that Ripple has come to maturity.... Wonder how about Stellar growing up alone after the fork....

Also to my understanding the dev team, the procedures, the management, the sales, the marketing... all those are way better organised by Ripple compared to Stellar. 
As a result Ripple never had one single issue, while Stellar once had a major problem that resulted in an unexpected fork with nodes running out of sync. Do we have to mention the awful problematic Stellar distribution? Or the "make good" but rather unfair giveaway for BTC and XRP holders? And than the idiotic accusation of Ripple being vulnerable to fork by attack (while they have been proven to be less stable developers themselves, resulting in that real fork)

And than looking over Jed"s "career"..... eDonkey: problems with legality, gone bust.... MtGox: problems with partner and legality and a cowardly runaway just in time before disaster.... Ripple: argue and fight on direction of company, runaway with one single goal: fight Ripple to death by a fork and by a childish illegal dump of a huge stake of XRP by not following the contract, with even taking an aunt and a couisin into his mess and court... 

Any idea where Stellar/Lumen might end? I do ....

@kanaas Thanks, great summery! This puts some specifics in to perspective. This indeed makes it a lot less (if not entirely) interesting to get involved with Stellar.

My only question that remains is why organizations, some even very large, still get involved with them? Seems strange looking at how you are summing up history.

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1 minute ago, Sancho said:

My only question that remains is why organizations, some even very large, still get involved with them? Seems strange looking at how you are summing up history.

I've learned to be very carefully with rumors and news on relations with large organisations. What does the "being involved" stands for? If I buy me a Mac, as a client I already have sort of "relationship" with Apple. I have my doubts that Jed has anything serious on the table that comes close to a substantial relationship. Have to admit that I did or do not follow it closely, so you may not take it on my words, but this advice always is a good one: do some deeper research on those relations with "large organisations" and try to find out what the relations really stand for... because in so many case this sort of references or nothing more than empty boxes...

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