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JA8

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  1. DS has stated that price appreciation is a desired effect, yes. Of course it is - and therein lies the problem (arguably), since appreciation is absolutely not part of the direct mechanics of ODL. And David Schwartz has been very clear on this himself. More than happy to have @JoelKatz chip in here to confirm this. @Julian_Williams You are referring to extraneous effects, i.e. the dampening effect on whale dumps - which were not part of the design, but rather a potentially useful downstream effect (if indeed this is a measurable effect) I’m not denying that new entrants to the crypto world might see benefits in owning / holding XRP, but once again any resulting price appreciation effects would rely upon speculation (again, not a direct part of the ODL design)
  2. And the award for "most tenacious" member goes to... @benstr! ;-) Seriously though, I do admire your determination to understand whether XRP could possibly increase in price via ODL. Perhaps it will/can. But this would be an inadvertent and unintended benefit. My point was simply that, as conceded by David Schwartz, a direct mechanism for this was never baked-in to the ODL architecture. The potential downstream price appreciation effects you're grasping for are unproven at this point. I personally think that price appreciation probably could (and should) have been an intentional part of the design. At the very least it would have avoided the community taking hopeful stabs in the dark like this.
  3. Logic check. When someone moves XRP (that they already own) between wallets, then that is not accumulation.
  4. Arbitrage bots keep price more or less equalised across exchanges. You're right - there is a 50% chance they could bid up exchange B to match the higher price on exchange A.
  5. I still honestly don't understand your point - maybe I'm just not very bright? No offence meant anyway. To answer your points above: 1) Correct - he was also addressing concerns about how (if at all) xRapid might contribute to an increased price for XRP. 2) When ODL becomes 80% of daily volume, there is still no direct mechanism by which ODL increases the price of XRP. There is no net increased demand, since an ODL transaction is in two parts: the buy and the sell. This leads to a zero sum / net zero impact on price and supply (as per David's own comments) ODL is not a net demand. It does not lead to a net reduction in the amount of XRP held on exchanges. This is according to the main architect of the XRP Ledger. It is also my understanding of how ODL works, and it makes perfect sense to me. So no, we do not defy the laws of supply and demand.
  6. I think there needs to be a profit incentive... but I'm a capitalist.
  7. No net demand. It's buying on one exchange, followed by near-simultaneous selling on another.
  8. Yes, I do know. As I said, it's zero sum. Here's David Schwartz saying exactly what I've just said above: ODL is wholly reliant upon speculation at the present time. It is throwing all its eggs in the basket of hoped-for speculative price increases to provide the base level liquidity it requires to function at scale. David has previously discussed how there may be downstream effects of ODL that could in fact increase the price, i.e. Jevons paradox prompting institutions to want to hold / hoard XRP (regulations permitting)... but even this relies on speculation to set in motion. Once again I reiterate that there is no underlying mechanism baked-in to ODL's architecture that results in *any* direct price increase for XRP. I assume this is why Ripple is trying to diversify XRP's use cases for retail / transactions (Coil etc)... as this would provide an actual mechanism that increases price.
  9. You want me to prove my claim that this is how ODL is designed? This is common knowledge, as far I was aware.
  10. Not sure what point you’re making there. ODL calculates whether a particular payment can go through without causing any price movement, and if so it then executes it.
  11. It’s zero sum. ODL is specifically designed to keep the price needle unmoved to avoid slippage.
  12. Regulation is (likely?) forthcoming. But the number of companies using ODL (or not) still has no direct effect on the price of XRP.
  13. It could be 100% of CMC daily volume, but my point would still remain that it is zero sum (instant buy/sell) and does not have any direct influence on the price of XRP.
  14. Hmm. The liquidity provided by customers using ODL is short-lived and zero sum (instant buy/sell). This does not directly impact order book depth on a lasting basis. For the XRP price to rise, speculators must necessarily want to own XRP. They might want to do this because: 1. They think the price will rise (so it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy); 2. They think XRP will act as a store of value; 3. They want to own it in order to use it for other purposes, i.e. retail-based utility (other long-tail type applications far beyond ODL). As things stand, the economic model for XRP price growth isn't great. It relies too heavily on point 1 at the present time. We might believe speculation will push the price higher, but for ODL to literally be *relying* on pure speculation to increase order book liquidity (whether this is in the short, medium or long term) seems poorly thought out. What might happen is that speculation takes the price to a high level, and ODL utility somehow maintains it at that level... but I know no of no economic precedent for this, and I'm not sure I see how it would work. I think it's quite ballsy (or alternatively, irresponsible) to be promoting a flagship product to banks etc on this basis. I've been here for a while, but I'm always learning. The above has troubled me for a while. I remain a large holder of XRP for the time being.
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