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This is a club for discussion of anything and everything related to the Flare Network, including Flare Finance, F-Assets, Gala Games, NFTs, airdrops, etc.
  1. What's new in this club
  2. Maybe Flare are planning to actually launch the next protocol? Could it be true?
  3. Are you asking for us to make sense out of that? Remember, we live on a flat earth, orbited by a hollow moon, where 5G causes covid, a major political party drinks baby's blood, and Hinman's speech was his opinion. Clearly there has been bad news for Songbird ;-) ... Thanks, @jn_r ... nothing as good as being able to make evidenced-based decisions :-)
  4. Crypto markets (mostly) a sea of red this morning - and SGB is ... up 18.8% !! o.O Any guesses what's driving the counter action ?
  5. Thanks, @jn_r! This is great information. I started in the EXFI pool and am rolling it all into the SFIN pool, then compounding every few days. My experience with the risk/reward of non-stablecoin LP in Ethereum wasn't great for the year or so I played around with it, so I'm staying out for now.
  6. Found the programming solution, pretty easy (obviously once you know it), just take totalSupply of the farm contract. Anyways, here's a last update. Maybe I'll check for a contract retrieval of the 'reward', then I'll be fully chain-based (am pressing buttons now and leaning backwards ): ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ SGB/CAND: 0.1030 EXFI/CAND: 3.5230 SFIN/CAND: 84839.99 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Farm | Token1 total | Token2 total | Total in CAND | Reward | Reward per 1000 CAND | APR ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ SFIN | 31.675909 | | 2687383.71 CAND | 0.1369 | 0.00005094 SFIN | 157.86% SFIN/CAND | 17.285106 | 1466468.20 | 2932936.40 CAND | 0.4109 | 0.00014010 SFIN | 434.13% EXFI/CAND | 619440.66 | 2182267.38 | 4364534.76 CAND | 0.4109 | 0.00009415 SFIN | 291.74% EXFI/SGB | 1111423.84 | 37806925.81 | 7810564.83 CAND | 0.4109 | 0.00005261 SFIN | 163.02% SGB/CAND | 24272847.56 | 2500709.93 | 5001419.87 CAND | 0.4109 | 0.00008216 SFIN | 254.59% EXFI | 7089000.76 | | 24974297.08 CAND | 0.2739 | 0.00001097 SFIN | 33.99% CAND | 2126875.86 | | 2126875.86 CAND | 0.0684 | 0.00003216 SFIN | 99.66% WSGB | 318972348.04 | | 32862123.69 CAND | 0.2739 | 0.00000833 SFIN | 25.83% ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  7. It seems like the big difference is being made by the amount of people in the pool. Is it worth buying SFIN directly and then putting it in the SFIN/CAND pool? The problem is that these APYs have already started to fall. Who knows how low they go.
  8. These closely match the platform itself, which lists 436% APY for SFIN/CAND and 99% for CAND.
  9. Here's a new overview, now with SFIN farm excluding the 'pool Supply'. I hardcoded the 'pool Supply' to 47.2005, I don't know how to retrieve it from the smart contract. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ SGB/CAND: 0.0988 EXFI/CAND: 3.3815 SFIN/CAND: 86004.67 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Farm | Token1 total | Token2 total | Total in CAND | Reward | Reward per 1000 CAND | APR ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ SFIN | 31.604147 | | 2718104.18 CAND | 0.1369 | 0.00005037 SFIN | 158.22% SFIN/CAND | 17.154435 | 1475361.47 | 2950722.94 CAND | 0.4109 | 0.00013925 SFIN | 437.44% EXFI/CAND | 633847.27 | 2143381.83 | 4286763.65 CAND | 0.4109 | 0.00009585 SFIN | 301.11% EXFI/SGB | 1110100.57 | 37838816.11 | 7493603.54 CAND | 0.4109 | 0.00005483 SFIN | 172.25% SGB/CAND | 24763860.16 | 2447504.24 | 4895008.48 CAND | 0.4109 | 0.00008394 SFIN | 263.69% EXFI | 7088883.43 | | 23971364.49 CAND | 0.2739 | 0.00001143 SFIN | 35.89% CAND | 2144497.16 | | 2144497.16 CAND | 0.0684 | 0.00003190 SFIN | 100.19% WSGB | 344794663.58 | | 34077336.75 CAND | 0.2739 | 0.00000804 SFIN | 25.25% ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  10. That explains the difference l see in the SFIN pool, my 78 includes both the 'pool supply' and the 'total staked' :-) Check: 31.6344 + 47.2005 = 78.8349
  11. I think the pool supply is how many SFIN will be given out by that pool. So at .401 a day, 143 SFIN is just under a year.
  12. good idea :-) I can not understand where the difference comes from with the SFIN pool, I've noticed it too and no explanation. For this single pool I check the amount of SFIN tokens that the SFIN Farm account holds (check the link). It points 78 SFIN. The same procedure I did for the other single tokens and for those others it does match. (CAND, EXFI, SGB) I don't know what the 'pool supply' is, also looking forward for someone to explain :-)
  13. I agree that putting the reward rate in terms of 1 value makes things more apples-to-apples comparable ... and thus better able to determine which type of unit is more lucrative. I was content with rough estimates in my minds eye. But, since you worked it out, Jn_r, let's drill into this so we can make sense of any discrepancies. The first is with SFIN to SFIN ... @jn_r where did u get 78.+ as the total number of SFIN? I show a pool supply of 47ish, of which only 31ish are staked? Since the reward is only being distributed to those that are staked, the 31+ figure seems to be all that matters for the SFIN to SFIN calculation. Right? I must be misunderstanding what is meant precisely by 'pool supply' and 'total staked'. Can someone explain it to me please?
  14. Thanks for this, and thanks to @RobertHarpool too. Jnr's calculations seem closer to the risk/reward profile. Robert your initial calculations have SFIN-SFIN as the highest reward but that doesn't make sense to me because it is a single-sided pool carrying no risk and very little opportunity cost (in terms of different ways to use SFIN compared to EXFI, SGB, etc). Jnr's calculations seem closer too because it tracks with how people are likely to be behaving. EXFI/CAND LP is offering the highest return partly because fewer people are in the pool. Why? Because as Robert said it means exiting Songbird/Flare and being all into Flare Finance. At the moment I am in the EXFI/SGB LP, and looking at the calculations I could be making more if I transferred that value to EXFI/CAND but that means losing my SGB and as I wrote above I'm just not ready to do that. I've already converted a decent chunk of my SGB to EXFI and even that is a little jittery. So the guys who are going all-in on FF are getting the most rewards from FF and that makes sense. The single pools should offer the worst return, with CAND being the lowest because it is theoretically the least risky. SFIN/CAND has a good return at the moment I think partly because of the limited amount of available SFIN. EXFI/SGB is giving a little less return because more people are in the pool because it is comparatively less risky.
  15. But you should calculate the Total Staked to 1 type of value, e.g. CAND. Only then you can compare.. I scripted it, seems rather useful to have this ready under the button (the APRs should of course be in the GUI). Not 100% sure I made no errors, but I think these are the current numbers (scroll to the right for the APR): ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ SGB/CAND: 0.0924 EXFI/CAND: 3.2133 SFIN/CAND: 87310.87 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Farm | Token1 total | Token2 total | Total in CAND | Reward | Reward per 1000 CAND | APR ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ SFIN | 78.175965 | | 6825611.50 CAND | 0.1369 | 0.00002006 SFIN | 63.96% SFIN/CAND | 16.676115 | 1456006.08 | 2912012.17 CAND | 0.4109 | 0.00014111 SFIN | 449.99% EXFI/CAND | 646607.51 | 2077734.69 | 4155469.39 CAND | 0.4109 | 0.00009888 SFIN | 315.34% EXFI/SGB | 1095356.19 | 38058832.18 | 7035236.47 CAND | 0.4109 | 0.00005841 SFIN | 186.26% SGB/CAND | 25672957.41 | 2371444.61 | 4742889.22 CAND | 0.4109 | 0.00008663 SFIN | 276.28% EXFI | 7093985.35 | | 22795001.95 CAND | 0.2739 | 0.00001202 SFIN | 38.32% CAND | 2459513.96 | | 2459513.96 CAND | 0.0684 | 0.00002781 SFIN | 88.69% WSGB | 426072186.05 | | 39356844.33 CAND | 0.2739 | 0.00000696 SFIN | 22.19% ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  16. Here's a rambler for ya' ... Well, I'm coming to understand that I'm going to have to track several things that I didn't before. One is obviously with regards to exposure to IL.( I have zero idea what I put in nor at what prices :-S) The other is delegation rewards. I think for now, I'll be pulling my WSGB out of Flare Finance on Wednesdays, and putting it back in on Friday morning. At least until I can rememeber/learn/find the exact time FTSO delegations are marked on Thursdays ... it is Thursdays, right? This simple chart (using today's numbers) ranks for me the highest rate of SFIN return per unit. Granted with the pairs (LP), it's actually per multiple units, ... and that all units aren't value equivalent .... but the disparity is so great that it seems a no brainer to be able to roughly guesstimate when they are to your advantage and when they're not. In the end, the math is rigged in every way to get you to separate from your SGB or WSGB for a FF token. For example: trading your WSGB for CAND at today's price earns 3 to 4 times higher SFIN return for staking CAND then it would for simply staking WSGB. The two I've focused on is 1.) SFIN to SFIN (obviously) followed by 3.) EXFI/CAND to SFIN .... I traded just enough SGB to get just enough CAND to pair with the EXFI was I given. No intention on buying any EXFI. Putting SFIN in 2.) is seems inefficient so long as 1.) is an option. The rest I keep in WSGB so I can more easily move it about and potentially deploy in other future Songbird projects. So far, I've managed to gain a whopping .0161 SFIN :-S Somebody STOP me! (-Jim Carry, The Mask)
  17. Actually I was wrong. Sorry about that. I just checked and SFIN staking does exist with ExFi collateralised loans and gives out CAND and SGB as rewards. This means there is a way to get a valuation for SFIN. It’s not all speculation. Rough math, with bad assumptions but just wanted to illustrate how I would try and look at a valuation. Assuming a total of 10B in loans are taken in an year, with average fees as 1%, that’s 10M in fees. Let’s add another 5% in bad debts/liquidations etc. So a total of 60M of revenues per year. Assuming all 11000 SFIN are staked for loan proceeds alone, that gives us ~5500 USD per year per 1 SFIN. Like I said, my assumptions could be wildly wrong. We might have much higher liquidations, fees, loans, or a combination. And actual valuation would likely be a multiple of 1 years valuation. If Flare Finance is successful, I think expecting a 6-10% per annum returns for your investment is a good solid value prop. So if I buy 1 SFIN at 100K, I personally would be very happy with an average 10K returns per annum. But I would be very disappointed if Flare Finance just folds in 2 years because I’ll never get back my investment.
  18. I agree that no one cares about it. But that leaves no value proposition except speculation, right?
  19. I think no one cares about governance. I think ExFi and DFLR/YFLR are a lot more valuable because there is a cash flow component to holding it and staking it in Loans for some fixed income.
  20. Thanks for this. So at the moment there is virtually no demand for buying SFIN on the open market except as a highly speculative investment. That is true of almost all crypto projects but SFIN itself is designed almost exclusively as a speculative asset with an implicit promise of high unit price. At the moment anyone who wants SFIN is staking/LPing to get it. Later, if Flare and FF become successful, then the potential for high prices in the related tokens will increase and so then I think we might see more buying on the open market and the 'scarcity' built into SFIN might assert itself. Until then, there's no real reason the SFIN price won't continue to bleed out and/or simply follow the movement of the other assets.
  21. This may not be the right approach.. If I go to https://songbird-explorer.flare.network/token/0x0D94e59332732D18CF3a3D457A8886A2AE29eA1B/token-holders, I see 10062 SFIN with 0x0D94e59332732D18CF3a3D457A8886A2AE29eA1B, along with 225000 ExFi. See top 15 below. The rest have < 0.2SFIN I will take that to mean 938 SFIN in circulation, including at exchanges and with whales. Some of the top addresses here could also be other ExFi products (LPs, Loans, etc.) 0x3b07881839C04Ad3A0904BcA09Ece7447200f2bc 10,062.499 SFIN 91.4773% 0x921E8f58cF517d289c01BCBE800c2d31838c1a28 142.180393453687029664 SFIN 1.2925% 0x02785B7CE6Eb9A5858561DDAB64cCBE5c478b730 142.115401338840608333 SFIN 1.2920% 0xc5478a1d5914cF9D0Ee20Da21459502eCb7E1646 142.057877594232527795 SFIN 1.2914% 0x864201b2227Ee23f0875c5D3Fc49F4F0ec59aC19 142.016757736940924414 SFIN 1.2911% 0x6BA0F675EB2f169D15764D5cf10C4EF0e9e059f2 95.205025300781922062 SFIN 0.8655% 0xc9231AB30b2B39c1f7f79132D7a44bBF0F8144B0 95.133582550779930922 SFIN 0.8649% 0x554742076743b366504972F86609d64fd18BDC34 77.18670847338421022 SFIN 0.7017% 0x38A03CD3140249C2c7311bfa6c9A63A0262212A0 29.627815062702871041 SFIN 0.2693% 0xc1BED4C40352C511B10A01A82e9ccff1ef479C23 25.782296043940650104 SFIN 0.2344% 0x32b36B0A8B74Ac9212946a99e0af727848D5A3A1 23.728273582317224758 SFIN 0.2157% 0x48195Ca4D228ce487AE2AE1335B017a95493Ade6 15.789272768052529203 SFIN 0.1435% 0x5CbbaEA64e28e1B33FD95f2216D8365CB6B85a6F 4.896486947333526127 SFIN 0.0445% 0x72C8908511F31A241D5f05F2fB10AAD14DCeC3cf 0.22907857740759886 SFIN 0.0021% 0x9DFCfDE58D9C19bBec48DE91539EE29eFF6B7637 0.220945036806514998 SFIN 0.0020%
  22. Does anyone know of a way to calculate this or a website that is keeping track of it? Would help to be able to calculate the current market cap to see how representative the price is in reference to other cryptos. Comparing the whole supply cap isn’t really helpful.
  23. I'm only in the single pools, grinding for SFIN. I don't trust the platform enough yet to get in the pair pools, especially after the exploit tanking SGB/arbitrage. So slow and steady, I guess. Starting to wonder more what happens when Flare goes live.
  24. ( I'm guessing you mean impermanent loss (IL) ? ) One easy way to conceptualize impermanent loss is to visualize the case of starting with equal amounts (in USD valuation) of tokens A and B. Then, after one month, the price of A is lower, but the price of B is higher. During that month, the DeFi system kept auto-trading fractions of your B for more A (to keep the USD valuations of the pair equal). IOW, you kept selling your rising B, for more of the falling A tokens Alternatively, if you had just kept your starting balances of the two tokens (un-pared in DeFi), that month's rising value of B would have helped make up for your falling valuation of A. Hope this is helpful
  25. Yeah, you've got it right. You would be to buy EXFI to go in 50/50. It certainly is an iffy strategy. I'm not advising it, just saying that's what I did.
  26. @brianwalden just kidding about the whale thing. But also I wanted to ask if I go more into the ExFi SGB pool then I will need to swap some of my SGB into ExFi. I think that’s what makes me reluctant, I’m not as in love with ExFi as I am with SGB, although I could greatly increase my SFIN yield by doing that. I dunno, turning fifty percent of my remaining songbird into ExFi feels a bit iffy.
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